Should we go back to Stable?

[Alpenwolf]

Long time ago updates for Open Beta were more or less a week ahead of updates for Stable. Therefore, most servers were hosted on Stable because waiting for a new update for such a short amount of time wasn't really a thing, I suppose. At some point that changed and servers started moving to Open Beta and many players followed. With DCS growing and obviously more modules, more options, more maps, more features, etc. are introduced to the game, more bugs and bad script behaviour occur and all that is self-evident so no problem there. While ED uses Open Beta for testing new stuff (that is the case, isn't it?) many of us use it and subconsciously started to think of it as Stable, otherwise you wouldn't read various complaints (not reports) around Open Beta being unstable. And I admit that after a long time of playing on Open Beta only, it subconsciously happened to me as well being unsatisfied with some of the updates until I went like "Wait a minute, what are you complaining about?! it's Open Beta!".

 

Yeah, I talk to myself. Sometimes... :music_whistling:

 

 

So...

... should we go back to Stable?

... or should we just stay on Open Beta? And if we go back to Stable, will that be on the cost of helping ED testing their new products?

 

I hope some server admins respond to this too.

 

 

S!

 

 

EDIT:

It says "relased" in the poll instead of "released".

Edited June 10, 2020 by Alpenwolf

[rossmum]

My biggest problem with switching to stable on a more permanent basis is that it's not uncommon for serious bugs to migrate into the 'stable' branch, and the much longer update cycle on that branch means a worse experience overall when you're affected by one of these issues. I'd rather deal with a week or two of stuff being broken than five months of waiting for ED to finally crush one or two severe problems - problems which ended up in the stable branch because they were in a hurry to push a new module to it, so brought stable up to the same build as OB all at once, rather than lagging 1-2 behind. The patch put out right after SC had virtually no time in OB (let alone internal testing) before it was pushed to stable, for instance.

 

Right now there are two serious bugs I've had to deal with across all versions of 2.5.6 - one is performance related (game slows to a crawl and then crashes, it appears to be induced by certain global lighting conditions, so it's unavoidable in certain missions) and the other is the rubber-banding I'm sure a lot of people have noticed. The latter became even worse after SC released - which means that is now going to be a problem on stable as well. It might be fine for PvE or even BVR, but it's a nightmare in close combat, and it appears to have no relation to the quality of the player's connection - high ping, low ping, full server, empty server, it makes no difference. My only guess is that it's something to do with whatever band-aid ED applied to stop people sliding around the carrier deck.

 

As for complaints about OB... I expect minor bugs, personally, but some of the things that slip through reveal little or no internal testing is being done - which makes the label 'beta' a bit rich. Unfortunately people are going to demand a patch every Wednesday, so I doubt that'll change as ED rushes them out the door with little to no testing. At the very least the high tempo of updates means things don't stay game-breakingly broken for as long.

Edited June 11, 2020 by rossmum

[Dehuman]

What rossmum said.

 

The bugs introduced each OB are squashed in a week or two.

Stable might have a better bug free experience in the core game but because of the infrequency bugs that affect individual modules can linger for much longer.

[Vertigo72]

Yes, we should use stable for playing the game, and run beta solely for the purpose of testing.

 

There are countless bad reasons to run OB (cant wait for new module X) but the worst possible reason is the fact we run OB because everyone else does. That means there effectively no longer is a beta branch for testing stuff and safely introducing new and untested and potentially game play breaking features. It means users bring out their pitchforks if something breaks in the OB and devs need to rush untested hotfixes that everyone will run and again expect to work. The current release cycle is broken. Maybe we can do a little ourselves by running the stable branch.

 

The bugs introduced each OB are squashed in a week or two.

 

This is at least partially because everyone runs OB, so gameplay breaking bugs in OB have to be considered critical and hotfixed. We may even be at the point where they are more critical than bugs in the stable version that hardly anyone plays.

[HC_Official]

It was a wonderful market spin from ED to re-brand the "release" version of DCS to "stable" a while ago and we all followed along .....

[philstyle]

I hope some server admins respond to this too.

 

 

Storm of War is seriously considering moving to stable. I'm testing the waters with other WW2 server operators. If a few of the more popular/ busy servers agree, we'll all shift over to Stable together. The idea would be to move the bulk of the WW2 multiplayer community over in one go.

 

 

If some of the modern / cold war period servers were also making the move, then a significant proportion of the multiplayer community would be held together.

 

 

More discussions with the server admins and the player base is required though.

[HC_Official]

what build ID number is dedicated server "stable" ?

[Mr_sukebe]

IMO, players should either:

- use Beta if they wish to test the latest functionality, but accept that it will include some issues,

- learn some patience and use stable

 

Constantly bleating about issues in OB is just nuts.

It is called OB for a reason. Just get over it

[Dino Might]

Agreed. To read Hoggit, you'd think that the world had ended, because there is a game breaking bug in open beta concerning damage.

 

 

If we cant (temporarily) play air quake to our liking on the beta branch of this game, it must mean that this is the worst flight sim game ever! Boycott all the things!

Then 1 week later and the bug is fixed, and it's on to the next end of the world complaint.

 

 

Seriously, DCS is awesome. It is an ever-evolving game, and I hope it stays that way, because it is the best flight sim I have played in my life, and I would like to enjoy it for the rest of my life.

 

 

The kids who want to burn it all down because their immediate and singular needs aren't met all the time should go find their binkies.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

Agreed. To read Hoggit, you'd think that the world had ended, because there is a game breaking bug in open beta concerning damage.

 

 

If we cant (temporarily) play air quake to our liking on the beta branch of this game, it must mean that this is the worst flight sim game ever! Boycott all the things!

Then 1 week later and the bug is fixed, and it's on to the next end of the world complaint.

 

 

Seriously, DCS is awesome. It is an ever-evolving game, and I hope it stays that way, because it is the best flight sim I have played in my life, and I would like to enjoy it for the rest of my life.

 

 

The kids who want to burn it all down because their immediate and singular needs aren't met all the time should go find their binkies.

 

Well, I for one am not a kid and for the record, they just dumped the old “unstable beta” on the new “stable” branch. I’m not talking about the knit picky crap complaining, I’m talking about the fact that I was happily Skipping along at 45-50fps with really good visuals in Stable and if by chance I actually wanted to play with someone, was tolerable on OB.

Now neither runs worth a crap and suddenly it’s because “MY” expectations are too high???

I realize we will never get the big servers back off OB but don’t dump a crappy code into Stable...

Branch.......

[Volator]

Yes, we should use stable for playing the game, and run beta solely for the purpose of testing.

 

There are countless bad reasons to run OB (cant wait for new module X) but the worst possible reason is the fact we run OB because everyone else does. That means there effectively no longer is a beta branch for testing stuff and safely introducing new and untested and potentially game play breaking features. It means users bring out their pitchforks if something breaks in the OB and devs need to rush untested hotfixes that everyone will run and again expect to work. The current release cycle is broken. Maybe we can do a little ourselves by running the stable branch.

 

 

 

This is at least partially because everyone runs OB, so gameplay breaking bugs in OB have to be considered critical and hotfixed. We may even be at the point where they are more critical than bugs in the stable version that hardly anyone plays.

 

:thumbup:

 

I concur with that. I was only on OB because all the good servers were. But now I've grown weary of the endless new bugs in the open beta breaking other things. HUDs and internal lights like AOA indexer being unreadable was the last drop for me to go back to "stable".

 

I know "stable" isn't perfect, but it's apparently better than what we have with OB. This is a multiplayer perspective.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pilot Ike

[VpR81]

This demands for the stable to actually be stable. No bugs, no performance issues and only beeing updated if the update is 100% bug free and will do nothing except enhancing the sim. No new bugs, no non-worked out features. If thats the case, i can live with an update cycle of a few months. As long as there is significant progress on the early access modules with each update. Waiting 3 months for a Hornet update to get i.e. only a new launch mode for the HARM is not enough. Waiting 3 months for a Hornet update wich then implements i.e. all AG-Radar modes feature complete and absolutely bug free to the stable, would be an acceptable progress and reasonable QA when waiting that long for updates.

[Volator]

This demands for the stable to actually be stable. No bugs, no performance issues and only beeing updated if the update is 100% bug free and will do nothing except enhancing the sim.

 

No complex software will ever be completely bug-free I'm afraid. It should however not contain obvious, critical bugs.

 

Still, I admit that the so-called stable version has several bugs and lack of content/functionality that needs to be adressed sooner than later. None of them came close to the game-breaking issues that the OB patches introduced lately though.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Pilot Ike