Autopilot or Level flight option at WW2 aircraft

[SharpeXB]

It’s great that DCS seems to be attracting new players. But this is a simulation so don’t expect the aircraft to have features that they didn’t have IRL

You don’t need an autopilot in WWII. Just learn to fly straight and level. Your aircraft shouldn’t spin out of control if you let go of the stick. Learn what trimming is. That’s what a simulation is all about, learning to do real tasks and not reaching for the easy button every time you find something difficult. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

It’s great that DCS seems to be attracting new players. But this is a simulation so don’t expect the aircraft to have features that they didn’t have IRL
You don’t need an autopilot in WWII. Just learn to fly straight and level. Your aircraft shouldn’t spin out of control if you let go of the stick. Learn what trimming is. That’s what a simulation is all about, learning to do real tasks and not reaching for the easy button every time you find something difficult. 

Funny. Based on this logic devs should remove all other assists already implemented not only in WWII modules but many others.

I'm not seeing how one more assist would brake this game from not being a simulator any more.

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[SharpeXB]

21 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

I'm not seeing how one more assist would brake this game from not being a simulator any more.

When lumped in with all the other silly helper feature requests like auto aerial refueling and help with this and that and everything it all gets a bit ridiculous. If this is too hard for y’all there’s always Candy Crush...

[LeCuvier]

@rkk01: I've had the 3 German warbirds from the very beginning, and I also use buttons & switches on my HOTAS + button box extensively, and I never click cockpit items during flight or even combat.

Yet I do not see the bindings as fickle. I have flown the 3 a lot, and I have rarely lost a binding.

[LeCuvier]

14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

When lumped in with all the other silly helper feature requests like auto aerial refueling and help with this and that and everything it all gets a bit ridiculous. If this is too hard for y’all there’s always Candy Crush...

Even if I share your opinion, I think that's not the right style to express it. We all have a right to our individual opinions, and we should respect each other.

[rkk01]

52 minutes ago, LeCuvier said:

@rkk01: I've had the 3 German warbirds from the very beginning, and I also use buttons & switches on my HOTAS + button box extensively, and I never click cockpit items during flight or even combat.

Yet I do not see the bindings as fickle. I have flown the 3 a lot, and I have rarely lost a binding.

Thanks... could easily be my ageing TM Cougar...

 

button set up for the “Malta” shipping strike mission is particularly all over the place. My normal “guns safe” B3 drops to 500kg bomb, with the B5 bomb release having no map at all. Control map screen shows all the mapping as I intend, but doesn’t follow in mission... it all works though and the ship was duly dispatched

[rkk01]

21 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s great that DCS seems to be attracting new players. But this is a simulation so don’t expect the aircraft to have features that they didn’t have IRL

You don’t need an autopilot in WWII. Just learn to fly straight and level. Your aircraft shouldn’t spin out of control if you let go of the stick. Learn what trimming is. That’s what a simulation is all about, learning to do real tasks and not reaching for the easy button every time you find something difficult. 

Indeed, good advice

 

You do know that the German birds only have elevator trim???

 

Trimming roll and yaw axes would require functions not available IRL 

 

I also suspect that RL pilots could find inventive ways to clamp the controls if they needed a brief hands free on other controls - knees for example???

(I seem to remember a relative saying that RAF bomber pilots couldn’t put there aircraft on auto did a crew bailout, whereas USAAF pilots could - hence numerous instances where pilots stayed at the controls to allow the crew to get out... ok, doesn’t apply to fighters)

Edited February 5, 2021 by rkk01

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, rkk01 said:

 

I also suspect that RL pilots could find inventive ways to clamp the controls if they needed a brief hands free on other controls - knees for example???

You can’t hold the stick with your left hand?

The WWII fighters in this sim didn’t have autopilots nor are autopilots needed in the game. Why do you need one?

If you’re playing a realistic campaign mission you’re always cruising in a formation where auto-level would be a hindrance. Or you are changing altitude  enroute and couldn’t use that function. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

You can’t hold the stick with your left hand?
The WWII fighters in this sim didn’t have autopilots nor are autopilots needed in the game. Why do you need one?
If you’re playing a realistic campaign mission you’re always cruising in a formation where auto-level would be a hindrance. Or you are changing altitude  enroute and couldn’t use that function. 

Yes we can hold the stick with our left hand.
Yes the fighter planes in WWII didn't have autopilots.
Yes, other modules have different assists.
Yes we do need one, and it was already explained why in this very thread.
No, having level autopilot hold option will not suddenly turn DCS into Candy Crush Saga.
No, having an autopilot during long campaign will not be a hindrance - quite the opposite.

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[SharpeXB]

9 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

No, having level autopilot hold option will not suddenly turn DCS into Candy Crush Saga.

The constant requests for easy mode noob features is tiring. I would prefer ED work on more important things than adding artificial features to the aircraft. As a complex simulation game, DCS isn’t for everyone. 

9 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

No, having an autopilot during long campaign will not be a hindrance - quite the opposite.

A “long” mission in these aircraft isn’t that long. Even the full sorties in the campaigns. How is it that “new” players can somehow fly for hours and hours and yet still not be able to keep their aircraft straight and level?

Edited February 5, 2021 by SharpeXB

[[DBS]TH0R]

The constant "elitism" backed with no arguments rather than "it needs to be difficult" or "this isn't for everyone" etc. is tiring and not doing this game or forums any good. It is also borderline trolling.

Fortunately, ED will decide what it best for the game, according to user feedback.

Last I checked the "easy mode Flying Cliffs" module is in development.

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[SharpeXB]

15 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Last I checked the "easy mode Flying Cliffs" module is in development.

Yep. MAC is for the casual market. DCS is not. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

I guess the active pause option is also for casual market. Oh look ...

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[razo+r]

46 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

 

Yes the fighter planes in WWII didn't have autopilots.
... 
 

 

Wrong. Certain planes in WWII were equipped with autopilot systems. Even single engine fighters had it, although rarely, but it was a modification available for planes. 

[Wrcknbckr]

Just now, razo+r said:

 

Wrong. Certain planes in WWII were equipped with autopilot systems. Even single engine fighters had it, although rarely, but it was a modification available for planes. 

 

Strings, elastic bands, knees... you name it. You can still use 'm today, no need to develop codes for.

 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, razo+r said:

 

Wrong. Certain planes in WWII were equipped with autopilot systems. Even single engine fighters had it, although rarely, but it was a modification available for planes. 

I don’t believe the ones currently in DCS had these. If DCS does a WWII aircraft that did have one. Great! Put it in that module. 

[razo+r]

43 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t believe the ones currently in DCS had these. If DCS does a WWII aircraft that did have one. Great! Put it in that module. 

 

Apparently a few K4/R6 had it, but so far I could only find hints on one, max. 2 of those R6 being built.

[Mogster]

Some of the longer range bomber FW 190s had autopilots iirc.

[Charly_Owl]

A simulated auto-level for WWII fighters does not make sense to me.

• I understand such a need for helicopters where there is an actual use for it (multiple crew members and gunners).
• Auto-rudder or takeoff-assist aims to help players that do not have the required hardware (rudder pedals) to compensate for torque, which is understandable.

However, for the specific feature of auto-level... just trim the aircraft! That's what those tabs are for. There is a difference between developing features for hardware or simulation limitations and developing features that play the game for you.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Charly_Owl

[rkk01]

As per my previous post... trim tabs aren’t a feature of these aircraft either!

 

The American fighters do have rudder, aileron and elevator trim

 

The Spitfire, I believe has just rudder and elevator trim

 

ths German fighters just have elevator trim

[SharpeXB]

41 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

As per my previous post... trim tabs aren’t a feature of these aircraft either!

 

The American fighters do have rudder, aileron and elevator trim

 

The Spitfire, I believe has just rudder and elevator trim

 

ths German fighters just have elevator trim

So should DCS add artificial trim features too?

[rkk01]

That’s what you seem to be constantly arguing for.....

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by rkk01

[Mogster]

From a quick search it seems the Lanc, Halifax and B17 all had early autopilot systems.
 

The system in the Lanc at least was capable of driving all control surfaces. Come to think about it wasn’t the Norden bomb sight linked to some form of autopilot?

Edited February 5, 2021 by Mogster

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, rkk01 said:

That’s what you seem to be constantly arguing for.....

 

 

How is that? I’m saying that as a simulation, DCS should not equip the aircraft with features or functions that they didn’t have in reality. 
Furthermore even as a simplification or gameplay aid, a level autopilot isn’t really needed for the current WWII era aircraft.

39 minutes ago, Mogster said:

From a quick search it seems the Lanc, Halifax and B17 all had early autopilot systems.

Sure and if those are ever playable aircraft in DCS they should have those systems modeled. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

For the record I am against the full blown autopilot feature. Level autopilot only OTOH would go far feature wise and definitely not brake the simulator part of this game as some would have your believe. Especially since by the nature of such a feature - it should fall under difficulty settings and should thus be easy to control from the server perspective. As for SP... I would appreciate people not telling me how to best enjoy my free time.

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