[NO BUG] Flaps out in close in BFM

[Spurts]

We will start sending Ironmike to anyone's address who over Gs the jet....we know where you live. :)

HAHAHA! Sweet, I'll go over G the thing tonight just so I can shake his hand.

[Kula66]

He didn't breaks the flaps: in his short story he say I have in the Tomcat that was prohibited manoeuvre of using full flaps, but I turned it into art science

 

Evidence? His 14 may have been bent, he doesn't say, but his squadron had free cocktails, beef and shrimps, he was happy!

[maxsin72]

We will start sending Ironmike to anyone's address who over Gs the jet....we know where you live. :)

 

:lol:

[Snappy]

Evidence? His 14 may have been bent, he doesn't say, but his squadron had free cocktails, beef and shrimps, he was happy!

 

Exactly.

You don't know if any torque tubes or other parts broke or cracked and the maintenance shop had to put in extra shifts to get the jet flying again.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy.

[maxsin72]

Exactly.

You don't know if any torque tubes or other parts broke or cracked and the maintenance shop had to put in extra shifts to get the jet flying again.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy.

 

 

He did it with "art science" and do you really think he broke torque tubes only to win roast beef and cocktails vs an F18 in a mock dogfight? A top gun instructor? A Navy Captain?

[Snappy]

Well you obviously think he didn't.

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

Edited October 2, 2020 by Snappy

[maxsin72]

Well you obviously think he didn't.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

 

 

And you obviously think he did, even if he told he did the maneuver with perfection (art science)

[Snappy]

And you obviously think he did, even if he told he did the maneuver with perfection (art science)

 

I simply don't know.

 

 

You are simply making a lot of assumptions with very little actual information or context. Plus, anyone who tries to point out alternative scenarios/viewpoints is unacceptable for you somehow to even consider..

 

Without regard to the above specific case:

 

If you honestly believe that simply being in the very top of the field of any profession means that you are immune to making mistakes and/or misjudgements.. well then I'm done here.I can only say thats a naive position.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

Edited October 2, 2020 by Snappy

[maxsin72]

You are simply making a lot of assumptions with very little actual information or context. Plus, anyone who tries to point out alternative scenarios/viewpoints is unacceptable for you somehow to even consider..

 

Without regard to the above specific case:

 

If you honestly believe that simply being in the very top of the field of any profession means that you are immune to making mistakes and/or misjudgements.. well then I'm done here.I can only say thats a naive position.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

 

 

The assumption is logical: if Snodgass can made a big and expensive damage to an aircraft of 30 millions dollars in1990, only to win roast beef and cocktails for free, it would means there was something wrong in the Navy. So i'm totally sure he didn't any damage, otherwise he would be punished.

[LanceCriminal86]

Trying to find the page but the Bye-Bye, Baby...! book has a maintainer mentioning Snort brought a jet with the G-meter pegged at 9+ and leaking from all over the place, so apparently it has happened.

 

Here it is, page 23:

 

"Snort would bring in a bird from a cross-country. He'd give the maintainers a thumbs up:

 

'Jet's good to go, fellas'.

 

Roger that Sir.

 

Then you'd start looking closer: Over-G'd. Leaking fluids.

 

We're going to be here all weekend on this one."

 

-Rocky Riley

[maxsin72]

Trying to find the page but the Bye-Bye, Baby...! book has a maintainer mentioning Snort brought a jet with the G-meter pegged at 9+ and leaking from all over the place, so apparently it has happened.

 

Here it is, page 23:

 

"Snort would bring in a bird from a cross-country. He'd give the maintainers a thumbs up:

 

'Jet's good to go, fellas'.

 

Roger that Sir.

 

Then you'd start looking closer: Over-G'd. Leaking fluids.

 

We're going to be here all weekend on this one."

 

-Rocky Riley

 

 

Yes, Snodgrass did it in another fight: Navy F14B vs F15C very skilled pilot, with both contenders who fought till they have only emergency fuel at 500 ft instead then 5000 ft.

But that was another story because of the competition between Navy and Aviation. And i think in this case he had the permission to do everything to win, and i also think the F15c pilot had the same permission too.

 

I''l give you some help, in this video he say about damages in a "knife fights"

Edited October 2, 2020 by maxsin72

[LanceCriminal86]

I think these data points would be great for integration into a dynamic campaign where you have X amount of airframes available, and downtime is tracked. I believe "the other sim" out there has something like that modeled, or maybe one of the 3rd party campaign generators does.

 

If ED's new dynamic campaign can track the status of an aircraft at the end of the mission and create down time that would be pretty cool. Maybe HB can create values for various component damages for how long a jet is unavailable. Keep breaking jets, can't sortie as many jets and missions get harder.

[maxsin72]

Full flaps in a real life video, it's not DCS :D

 

 

Paco Chierici https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27889/confessions-of-a-navy-f-14-fleet-pilot-turned-f-5-aggressor

 

 

The A-model was also underpowered for maneuvering fights with an approximately 0.67:1 thrust to weight ratio. Furthermore, we had a 6.5 G limit, though there was no black box that would tell on you, so we often went well beyond 7 G. While it had massive elevators that would develop an incredible instantaneous pitch rate, the lack of ailerons and the sheer width of the plane made the roll rate sluggish.

 

 

F-15s liked to drag the Tomcat high and use their superior thrust to gain an advantage. An off-the-books tactic we used to counter this was to manually extend the wings to the fullest, then incrementally lower the flaps beyond the normal maneuver setting. It was hugely successful, but the danger was that the flap torque tubes were not designed for this and could become stuck.

Life is all about tradeoffs, and not losing to an F-15 is certainly worth the ire of the maintenance Master Chief.

[Cab]

To be clear, no one is saying real F-14 pilots never used landing flaps in BFM, and no one is saying they shouldn't be able to use them in DCS. (At least I don't think anyone is saying that). The question is whether or not the damage model is accurate with F-14's flying around at 300+ knots with full flaps and pulling 6 - 8 g's with no damage. That is all Heatblur has been asked to check.

 

Also keep in mind that in real life there were consequences if you broke the jet. Maybe small consequences, maybe big. Hell, many squadron CO's didn't even allow it. And God forbid you break the jet doing something your CO prohibited.

[captain_dalan]

Ah, cults of personality. How does it feel to live in a communist country back in the 50's? Eh boys? ;)

[draconus]

The A-model was also underpowered for maneuvering fights with an approximately 0.67:1 thrust to weight ratio. Furthermore, we had a 6.5 G limit, though there was no black box that would tell on you, so we often went well beyond 7 G.

 

What I have read on this forum was that maintenance crew could check how much max G was pulled and the g-meter has the needle for both min and max.

[Quid]

What I have read on this forum was that maintenance crew could check how much max G was pulled and the g-meter has the needle for both min and max.

 

It depends on the model and when. For the normal accelerometer, you can just reset it. The engine FEMS in the F-14B and D tattled at 7.5g with an airspeed above .24M. Apart from that, I do recall reading the same, that eventually the plane itself after some point started recording max g regardless of if the accelerometer was reset, but I don't know when.