P-37 and PRV-11 radars

[Northstar98]

Hi everyone,

Would it be possible for the P-37 [Bar Lock-B] and PRV-11 [Side Net] radars to be implemented in DCS as fully functional units? At the moment these 2 are among the best looking radars in DCS, they've been around for quite some time and are both appropriately animated.

Both radars were/are very prolific, widely exported and are staple radars of the Cold War.

The PRV-11 would also make for additional battery component (even if non-functional) for some of our single-digit SAMs (namely the SA-2 and SA-3) and the P-37 would be a much more appropriate acquisition/search radar for the SA-5, certainly far more appropriate than the P-19 or 5N59S. This, in addition to serving as an EWR/GCI radar, which is what it's best known for.

The RSP-7 [Two Spot] and DRL-7 are also appropriately animated, although these would probably require an ATC upgrade to really be useful as the RSP-7 is a PAR and PAR approaches is not something that DCS currently supports. Though I'd still argue for their inclusion into the unit list regardless (alongside their other components - a generator and a radio antenna), even if purely cosmetic.

The thing is, air defence radars, particularly early-warning and long-range surveillance radars are something that IMO, is severely lacking in DCS. Personally, it's a real shame that radars that are incredibly prolific and widely exported, that would fit a couple of our SAM systems and quite a few maps (present and in-development) are non-functional eye-candy, despite models being present and in the right format.

Spoiler

If anyone wants to take a look, the models for these units can be found in Bazar\World\Shapes and the files you're looking for are as follows:

• P-37 Mech [Bar Lock-B]: rls-37.edm
• PRV-11 [Side Net]: PRW-11.edm
• DRL-7: rsp_drl-7.edm
• RSP-7 [Two Spot]: rsp-7.edm
• ESD-20 generator: rsp_esd-20.edm
• Direction-finding(?) antenna: rsp_peleng.edm
• Communications antenna: rsp_radio.edm

Edited April 11 by Northstar98
grammar

[Baco]

+1

[MBot]

I fully agree. It is a shame that these very nice and complete models cannot be used for missions.

[Northstar98]

Wanted to bump this request, they're both very prolific radars that would fit on many of our current and upcoming maps (Caucasus, Sinai, Syria and the Kola map). Especially the P-35/-35M/-37, which is still used by Syria and Russia (and can still be seen at EWR sites in Egypt, as recently as 2014, so well within the era of the majority of our modules), at locations our maps cover/will cover.

The models for these 2 (and the DRL-7 ASR) are perfectly adequate enough as is, all the P-37 would need is the mound it's on deleted. Past that, all that's needed is a .lua definition for them and there's plenty of sufficient information online for what DCS requires.

We only have 3 other Eastern EWRs and 2 of them are decades old models dating back from Flanker 2.0 and the other one can only be used as an acquisition radar. What's even better is that the P-35/-35M/37 would be a much more appropriate acquisition radar for the SA-5 than either the P-19 or the 5N59S.

[Shepa-irkut2]

Где их можно скачать?

[peterbrownbyu]

+1 on the bump, the bar lock is one of the most prolific early warning / cgi radars in history and we already have a pretty good 3d model for it (compared to the spoon rest and tall king anyway lol). It's kind of mind boggling that it hasn't been implemented as a usable radar. All of the radars in game need a little facelift to some extent or another, but it seems like if the end goal is to implement EW / SEAD in the game, that's the obvious path forward

[Northstar98]

12 hours ago, Shepa-irkut2 said:

Где их можно скачать?

For the models themselves, they're already in-game. They can be found in your main DCS installation folder, under Bazar\World\Shapes. The model names are RLS_p-37.edm and PRW-11.edm for the P-37 and PRV-11 respctively.

I have had a go at making a .lua for the unit and sensor, these can be found here. But these alone won't cause it show up in-game. Bear in mind though that I'm not a modder, I don't really know what I'm doing and the 2.7 .lua lockdown has made things much harder. If anyone who actually knows what they're doing wants to improve them or point me in the right direction so these will show up in-game as a functional unit, it would be greatly appreciated.

5 hours ago, peterbrownbyu said:

All of the radars in game need a little facelift to some extent or another, but it seems like if the end goal is to implement EW / SEAD in the game, that's the obvious path forward

I mean, the only thing IMO that would need to be done is to remove the grass mound - it works well enough on grassy maps (such as the Caucasus and upcoming Kola), but isn't appropriate for Syria and the Sinai.

The 1L13 and 55G6 though definitely are in need of replacement, those 2 don't look like they've been touched since LOMAC or possibly even Flanker 2.0.

The trailer mounted 5N59S Tin Shield I'd say looks perfectly adequate, all it's missing are animations to support it being towed around (such as with the 5N64S Big Bird). The mast-mounted version though (and the aforementioned Big Bird) are missing higher-quality models, though those will likely come in a new paid-for pack.

The AN/FPS-117 also looks perfectly adequate (as it would being one of the newest additions to DCS), I just wish the radome version wasn't an entirely separate unit and that it could just be an option in the additional unit properties.

But absolutely agreed with these 2 being obvious additions - the part that entails the most work has already been done, which has been the case for over a decade. They only need .lua definitions for the unit and sensor (something that should take single-digit minutes to write) and an addition to the db-countries.lua for the respective countries (which for the the .lua files in the post above would be the addition of cnt_unit( units.Cars.Car, "P-37"); and cnt_unit( units.Cars.Car, "PRV-11"); in the Grveh list of each applicable country (USSR, Russia, GDR, Egypt, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, Vietnam etc). I have given that a try, but it doesn't seem to work.

Edited February 7 by Northstar98

[Shepa-irkut2]

@Northstar98

How to contact you. I took the radar models and made them into a mod. But how to make them work?! To make the antennas spin... Write me a private message on the forum if you are interested)

Edited April 2 by Shepa-irkut2

[Northstar98]

Unfortunately I'm the wrong person to ask, though I believe @Whiskey11 has attempted something with the PRV-11 though (I at least did find this).

[Whiskey11]

4 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Unfortunately I'm the wrong person to ask, though I believe @Whiskey11 has attempted something with the PRV-11 though (I at least did find this).

Yup, and I've given up trying to use the ED model, mostly because I've run out of ways to try and get the animation to work correctly. It works as a sensor, it tracks across the sky and it oscillates the dish, but it's pretty janky and the tracking is inverted for some reason...

[Richrach]

Both these radars need to actually be in the game.  They are already modeled, obviously, since they are in the game's encyclopedia.  As radars used throughout the world, even to this day, they are significant and worthy of the time to flesh out.

[Northstar98]

Yep, absolutely.

Both (especially the P-37) can be found on the Caucasus, Sinai, Syria, the upcoming Kola map, and the future Iraq map IRL. They were both very prolific and are staple radars of Cold War redfor. They're already appropriately animated and their graphics are definitely decent enough (though I'd maybe remove the grass mound the P-37 sits on).

The P-37, in addition to an EWR and GCI radar, would also make for a far better stand in for the 5N84A radar for the S-200V. Certainly far more appropriate than either the P-19 or the 5N59S.

[Richrach]

just shutdown are restarted.  No Barlock (Radar P-37) or Sidenet (Radar PRW_11) available for Syrian map.

 

- What countries are they linked to?  Should be USSR and Russia since they were designed in the Soviet.  Screen shots of my game showing they do not appear in Air Defense for either Russia or USSR.  If I am just flat missing it, point it out and I will sit in the corner with the "dunce" cap on.

 

My scenarios are from 973, when Sidenet and Barlock were on the front lines everywhere.  Have personal experience with both, operating and opposing.

 

 

dcs.log

[Tholozor]

15 minutes ago, Richrach said:

- What countries are they linked to?

Neither are available as placeable assets. The models currently only exist as static map objects.

[Northstar98]

As Tholozor said - they aren't linked to any country. They're only available as wholly non-functional eye-candy at airbases on the Caucasus map alone. The P-37 does rotate and you can destroy it, but that's the extent of its current functionality.

[Richrach]

Tholozor, thank you for the clarification.  Your answer demonstrates the problem perfectly and that I was right.

 

These radars are significant enough historically to be included in the place-able unit category but are not found there.  This is akin to the SA-7 being absent, which is also a significant oversight.  Personal note:  I have personally fought on and/or over three continents, and these radars were part of the EOB for all three.  SA-7 was part of every pre-mission brief taking off from land bases.

 

If people are serious enough to seek to fly MiG-21s, MiG-29s, SU-27s, F-4s, F-5s, Tomcats, and other aircraft of their era(s), this is an issue which should be addressed based on the fidelity of the experience they are clearly desiring.

 

One old Warhorse's opinion.

[Tholozor]

Northstar's post above towards the beginning of the thread has a link to the Wishlist thread for the radars as placeable units.

Edited April 10 by Tholozor

[Shepa-irkut2]

@Northstar98

Hello) The topic is very good.  Did you manage to animate these objects, radars?

[Northstar98]

On 4/29/2024 at 1:06 AM, Shepa-irkut2 said:

@Northstar98

Hello) The topic is very good.  Did you manage to animate these objects, radars?

Unfortunately not having much luck - I've been attempting to make it a mod, but can't get it to appear in the unit list. Can't find any problems in the DCS.log, not sure what I'm doing wrong, though again I've never done it before so I'm probably making stupid errors.

It would be excellent if it could be made an official unit though @BIGNEWY, @NineLine

Edited yesterday at 08:06 AM by Northstar98