manual maneuver flaps?

[eatthis]

when should i be using these manually? ive only just found out they arnt automatic

[VC]

They are automatic, based on AoA.

 

The manual mode is mainly for land take-off (meant to use these not the full flaps), or as a backup in case auto fails.

Edited September 27, 2020 by VC

[eatthis]

They are automatic, based on AoA.

 

The manual mode is mainly for land take-off (meant to use these not the full flaps), or as a backup in case auto fails.

 

so im not gonna gain anything using them manually in a dogfight?

[QuiGon]

The manual mode is mainly for land take-off (meant to use these not the full flaps), or as a backup in case auto fails.

No, that's wrong. You're talking about the DLC which you can activate by pressing the DLC switch on the stick with gears and flaps down. It's not used as a backup, but as a method to do perform fine adjustments to the glidepath during regular landing oeprations.

The OP is not talking about the DLC though. He asked about the maneuver flaps which can be actuated manually in flight by the same DLC switch with gears and flaps up. They can be used manually in dogfights instead of the automatic system if one prefers to do so.

[Katj]

No, that's wrong. You're talking about the DLC which you can activate by pressing the DLC switch on the stick with gears and flaps down. It's not used as a backup, but as a method to do perform fine adjustments to the glidepath during regular landing oeprations.

The OP is not talking about the DLC though. He asked about the maneuver flaps which can be actuated manually in flight by the same DLC switch with gears and flaps up. They can be used manually in dogfights instead of the automatic system if one prefers to do so.

No, VC is talking maneuver flaps.

 

You can deploy them before you take off from land. It's mentioned in the tutorial, and is my preferred way to take off from land.

 

Why don't you try it out?

[QuiGon]

No, VC is talking maneuver flaps.

 

You can deploy them before you take off from land. It's mentioned in the tutorial, and is my preferred way to take off from land.

 

Why don't you try it out?

That's the DLC you're talking about.

[eatthis]

No, VC is talking maneuver flaps.

 

You can deploy them before you take off from land. It's mentioned in the tutorial, and is my preferred way to take off from land.

 

Why don't you try it out?

 

i have dlc as a push and then an axis. are the m flaps controlled using the axis without pressing the dlc button?

i know the dlc requires flaps and/or gear (i guess gear) down but are the m flaps useable with flaps up and regardless of gear?

is there any advantage to using them in a dogfight and whats max speed they should be used at?

[eatthis]

That's the DLC you're talking about.

 

doesnt sound like hes talking about dlc to me, why on earth would you use dlc for takeoff? its for landing only

[Katj]

That's the DLC you're talking about.

It's not, but at this point I don't think you'll change your mind. Enjoy your ignorance.

 

i have dlc as a push and then an axis. are the m flaps controlled using the axis without pressing the dlc button?

 

i know the dlc requires flaps and/or gear (i guess gear) down but are the m flaps useable with flaps up and regardless of gear?

 

is there any advantage to using them in a dogfight and whats max speed they should be used at?

 

Yeah, flaps up, gear up or down, no DLC (as it will deploy countermeasures in this mode). Then wiggle that axis. If you look back at your wing you'll see the slats come down.

 

I just use manual when preparing for take off. I suppose there could be some other edge use case that I don't know about.

[VC]

QuiGon, the maneuver flaps+slats use the same axis as DLC, but wihout pushing the button first. Axis is the other way around though, thumbwheel aft is deploy, forward is retract. This manually deploys the wing leading edge slats and maneuver flaps setting, exactly what the auto does at high AoA. Just to be absolutely clear in case it's a terminology misunderstanding, that's not the DLC. The DLC is manual control of the spoilers that come out on top of the wing.

 

eatthis, unless the auto system is broken there is nothing to be gained from using them manually in combat. You can definitely break the flaps but I don't know their exact speed limit. They also prevent the wings from sweeping, so if you break them with wings out you're a bit stuffed. The slats can deploy with the wings swept, best let them do their own thing.

Edited September 28, 2020 by VC

[QuiGon]

QuiGon, the maneuver flaps+slats use the same axis as DLC, but wihout pushing the button first.

My bad, for some reason I was under the impression you would have to press the button for the maneuver flaps as well, sorry :doh:

I should stick to my backseat stuff :music_whistling:

Edited September 28, 2020 by QuiGon

[eatthis]

QuiGon, the maneuver flaps+slats use the same axis as DLC, but wihout pushing the button first. Axis is the other way around though, thumbwheel aft is deploy, forward is retract. This manually deploys the wing leading edge slats and maneuver flaps setting, exactly what the auto does at high AoA. Just to be absolutely clear in case it's a terminology misunderstanding, that's not the DLC. The DLC is manual control of the spoilers that come out on top of the wing.

 

eatthis, unless the auto system is broken there is nothing to be gained from using them manually in combat. You can definitely break the flaps but I don't know their exact speed limit. They also prevent the wings from sweeping, so if you break them with wings out you're a bit stuffed. The slats can deploy with the wings swept, best let them do their own thing.

 

rgr that, i can neither confirm nor deny that i might have broken the main flaps a couple of times lol

[VC]

No worries QuiGon, I know you're generally quite knowledgeable but we all make mistakes, the other guy over-reacted a bit but as long as we're all learning it's cool. I had to edit my post as I initially claimed the F-14 doesn't have maneuver flaps lol :)

 

eatthis lol, so have I, though usually when I forget the main flaps lever axis in a random position (since it's mapped for other functions in different planes). It's also more "fun" when they get damaged asymmetrically...

 

By the way, feel free to test the damage speeds and report back!

[captain_dalan]

rgr that, i can neither confirm nor deny that i might have broken the main flaps a couple of times lol

 

It would appear you could not have broken the flaps by using the manual maneuver flap override. If you did, you probably dropped the full flaps with the lever.

[IronMike]

There's a couple situations you should use manual maneuver flaps, I'll just shoot you three of the top of my head:

 

1. Take off: With normal length runways, and due to the fact that you dont use ABs, so you don't want to add that much drag, you use MFs during take offs, You set them manually before you start rolling. On your discretion you can either retract them again manually right away or wait till they retract automatically upon reaching a certain speed (around 250kts iirc)

 

2. Slow speed orbits (especially at higher altitudes): If you get slow enough, I would say below 230kts indicated, in an orbit, the MFs will deploy automatically. This is great for lift, but it also adds drag, which in such a turn is detrimental, as you will start dropping speed like brick and quickly come into a stall regime, if you dont either run mil power or even ABs (and thus waste fuel) at the same time. Hence you need to hold them in. And yes, your fingers will hurt. The fingers of our SMEs started hurting in long orbits, too, because of that. So if you find yourself in such a situation and need to hold the tight orbit, it is best to hold them in manually and add a little power, than to leave them out and add lots of power.

 

3. In a turnfight: yes, they do add drag, but they also add lift. If you have enough oomph blowing out your back and your AOA is rather high and you are pulling Gs and you are at an appropriate speed, they can help you bring on the nose just a bit more, if you like. However, I find that the automatic deployment and retraction of the MFs is just fine enough for me in a turn fight. I also dont use flaps or manual sweep or any of that stuff. Just a good energy fight, a good envelope is usually enough. Being preoccupied with MF fiddling is something I happily leave out of the workflow.

[eatthis]

It would appear you could not have broken the flaps by using the manual maneuver flap override. If you did, you probably dropped the full flaps with the lever.

 

yes, iv only used full flaps. i didnt know you could use m flaps manually, thats why i started this thread lol

[majapahit]

I discovered this "DLC / Maneuver Flaps Retract" Axis now, to manually induce Maneuver Flap, indeed. Fancy.

 

Won't deploy over 300kts in instant free flight, will retract @ 320kts when deployed.

 

Will extend DCS instant take off, hot on the runway.

 

With a TMWH I assigned the Throttle slider, that slider only does 50% (dumb, what) value on X, if saturation X set to 50, this will do 100%, you cannot 'Invert' this slider to 100%

[r4y30n]

3. In a turnfight: yes, they do add drag, but they also add lift. If you have enough oomph blowing out your back and your AOA is rather high and you are pulling Gs and you are at an appropriate speed, they can help you bring on the nose just a bit more, if you like. However, I find that the automatic deployment and retraction of the MFs is just fine enough for me in a turn fight. I also dont use flaps or manual sweep or any of that stuff. Just a good energy fight, a good envelope is usually enough. Being preoccupied with MF fiddling is something I happily leave out of the workflow.

 

But aren't they triggered by AOA? Or does the plane react quicker if you have them deployed before you pull rather than deploying as you pull?

 

I've never bothered with them in combat, either... I trust Grumman when they, say "The schedule commands full maneuver flaps and slats as soon as the slatted wing maneuvering efficiency exceeds that of the clean wing."

[VC]

I've never bothered with them in combat, either... I trust Grumman when they, say "The schedule commands full maneuver flaps and slats as soon as the slatted wing maneuvering efficiency exceeds that of the clean wing."

 

 

Same. And IronMike does say the workload is less with them left automatic.

[captain_dalan]

But aren't they triggered by AOA? Or does the plane react quicker if you have them deployed before you pull rather than deploying as you pull?

 

 

The difference in timing is negligible. Yeah, if you know you gonna unload and manually retract them before the CDC detects the change of AoA and does it for you you may save a few tenths of a second (and vice versa), but to be completely frank, the greatest difference i've noticed is the boost in my ego from doing it. For all other intents and purposes, the plane acts pretty much the same :D

[Uxi]

Right after they implemented the damage a month or two ago, I broke mine since I was using the flap control for something in the RIO pit and when I switched back to pilot, the flaps came down at fairly high speed and the plane became barely controllable (roll and yaw stability augmentation were broken, too) and nothing I could do in flight would fix it. Wings were stuck and emergency wing sweep didn't work. IIRC, speed brake wouldn't deploy either.

 

I diverted to a nearby airfield but was too hot and came off the runway, so ejected. Chassis survived though lost one wing and burned.

 

Later on I saw the emergency flaps keybinds but not sure it would have worked either. Is that a real function? Nothing in Chuck's Guide or HB DCS manual I can find.

[draconus]

Later on I saw the emergency flaps keybinds but not sure it would have worked either. Is that a real function? Nothing in Chuck's Guide or HB DCS manual I can find.

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#flaps-and-slats

If a fault exists preventing retraction of flaps the FLAP handle should be moved to the UP position and then moved outboard and up to the EMER UP position, overriding faulty interlocks.