[REPORTED]MAV display still a problem when smoke is involved

[imacken]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned since last patch, but the MAV display is still problematic when there is smoke on the ground.

[Fri13]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned since last patch, but the MAV display is still problematic when there is smoke on the ground.

 

Wait the todays update when A-10C II gets released, as it is a bummer if many finds same thing...

[BIGNEWY]

Hi please include a track replay when reporting so we can test the same circumstance.

 

Are you using any shader mods or reshade?

 

Thanks

[dorianR666]

this particular bug has been reported dozens of times over the years. it happens occasionally when IR sensor has smoke in its view (it affects mavericks, tgps, ... on multiple planes).

 

delete fxo and metashaders2 and set chimney smoke to zero in settings. thats been reported to allegedly help somewhat.

[imacken]

Hi please include a track replay when reporting so we can test the same circumstance.

 

Are you using any shader mods or reshade?

 

Thanks

Very interesting. I was about to post a track, then I decided to watch it. The problem wasn't there. I then ran the mission again, and it still wasn't there! Thinking back over the last few days, it is there sometimes and not others.

 

This is reminiscent of other posts I made serval weeks ago about the Walleye and the Mav when viewing tracks multiple times gave different results.

 

BTW, this is on TrackIR, and I don't use any mods at all in VR or on monitor.

[imacken]

this particular bug has been reported dozens of times over the years. it happens occasionally when IR sensor has smoke in its view (it affects mavericks, tgps, ... on multiple planes).

 

delete fxo and metashaders2 and set chimney smoke to zero in settings. thats been reported to allegedly help somewhat.

 

Sure, but it was supposed to have been fixed.

[BIGNEWY]

The problem is I have to reproduce it, and so far I have not been able to.

 

I will keep trying

[Ramsay]

Very interesting. I was about to post a track, then I decided to watch it. The problem wasn't there. I then ran the mission again, and it still wasn't there! Thinking back over the last few days, it is there sometimes and not others.

 

In general, rebooting your PC will cause the problem to reoccur, it seems to be shader cache issue but I'm not sure if it's DCS or a GFX driver issue (do people with AMD cards see the same issue ?).

 

Once a "bugged" track has been played, it can be hard to reproduce after quitting and restarting DCS i.e. it's a sort of work around to "fix" the next mission you fly but it's not 100% guaranteed.

 

Last year I recorded playing a track before and after a PC reboot to demo the problem.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4082694#post4082694

 

I can do the same for a maverick track if req'ed but AFAIK it's a FLIR rendering problem, and common to other modules and IR weapons i.e. A-10C, AV-8B, IRMAV, TGP, Walleye II, etc.

 

First track run IRMAV

 

 

Second run was the same, as was third after quitting DCS and replaying.

 

Fourth run I quit out of DCS again and cleared the fxo and metashader2 folders and got a "good" IR render

 

 

5th and 6th replays (inc. after rebooting the PC) have been good :( , I report back if/when I have "bad" IR render (I've seen it take +12 runs before it bugs out).

 

BN what is your MFD setting 512, 512 every frame, etc. ?

 

Mine is at 512 but as you say it's hard to test different options when the bug doesn't play nice.

 

Edit: Sure enough, after playing another track (LMAV with TGP in CCD) and retesting, the IR render bug is back when playing the IR Maverick track.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Ramsay
Add pictures from 2.5.6.55363 tests

[imacken]

Very interesting indeed what you say. This could explain a lot of the issues I've had in the past with tracks showing different results on repeated viewings.

I cleared out the shaders, and now I get a totally different (better) display. See attached. Same mission!

My MFD is set to 1024.

[BIGNEWY]

Very interesting indeed what you say. This could explain a lot of the issues I've had in the past with tracks showing different results on repeated viewings.

I cleared out the shaders, and now I get a totally different (better) display. See attached. Same mission!

My MFD is set to 1024.

 

Good to hear, so it maybe an old shader issue which is why I may not be able to reproduce

[imacken]

Interestingly, this may also have solved the graphic corruption I was seeing in VR that I was about to post on. 2 or 3 missions I've tried where I know I had an issue, seem to be OK at the moment.

Could be a result!

[Ramsay]

... so it maybe an old shader issue which is why I may not be able to reproduce

 

Definitely not.

 

It's really hard to tell exactly what's causing the problem, running the same settings/cache files gives different results on different runs.

 

For example clearing the fso and metashader2 cache folders may or may not fix the next track's play through.

 

For a while I thought there was a difference between a PC restart and shutdown, or that disabling the nvidia shader cache in the 3D control panel caused the same issue.

 

But every time I think I've found a fix/cause the next run proves it was a placebo effect.

 

I can reproduce the problem fairly easily (2 in 5 with the first attempts having the highest probability) but I can't say with certainty what the result will be for any particular mission*.

 

*It's that bad I consider night missions in the A-10C pointlessly frustrating and have given up on them.

 

I also have DCS 1.2.16 and 1.5.6.5199 installed which don't show the same issue i.e. it looks to be purely associated with the deferred shading used in 2.5.x ?

 

Previously tested with a GTX1050Ti and currently with an RTX2070S and driver 456.55

[Ramsay]

Note that, as well as looking like my 2 previous pictures, the IR Maverick image can **also** look like

 

this ... black smoke with faint ground detail on a light background

 

 

or this ... white smoke with good ground detail on a dark background

 

 

... so the mavrick picture in the MFD can look 1 of 4 ways depending on the shader's behaviour.

 

The common "feature" of the three "bad" renders are that the smoke plume is rendered with sharp edges.

 

Additional Info.

 

To put the problem into perspective - after running 20 back to back tests, only 3 in 10 replays displayed the IR correctly.

 

The first 10 runs were typical of my experience

 

Number, IR Maverick Display, Track Numbers

3 x Good = 1st, 5th, 9th

4 x Whiteout = 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th

3 x White smoke on dark = 4th, 8th, 10th

0 x Black smoke on light = none

 

The "bad" replays tended to repeat in pairs but it wasn't always for the same fault.

 

I quit to desktop and restarted DCS before each replay.

 

Tested using Open Beta 2.5.6.55743

Edited October 1, 2020 by Ramsay
Only 3 out of 10 track replays play back with good FLIR.

[Nealius]

If it's up to devs to reproduce, and they can't reproduce, are we ever going to see this fixed? A huge chunk of the user base has experienced this problem over the past year, if not longer.

[BIGNEWY]

I can not reproduce, other testers have tried.

 

Not one track replay in this thread so far that would even let me try the same circumstance, Im happy to keep trying, I have tested it many times, on my system it is not reproducing.

 

thanks

[Ramsay]

I can not reproduce, other testers have tried.

 

Not one track replay in this thread so far that would even let me try the same circumstance, Im happy to keep trying, I have tested it many times, on my system it is not reproducing.

 

The pre-requisites seem to be Heat blur and Chimney Smoke Density.

 

With Heat Blur = OFF and Chimney Smoke Density=0 the IR image is always good (5/5) - provided a track with "bad" "option" settings hasn't already been played.

 

With just one disabled, results have been mixed with it taking longer for the bug to appear (tested by editing the track's "option" file).

 

It's also important to restart between replays as otherwise the IR shader state or track options seem to persist i.e. a "bad" track will play back correctly after a "good" track and vice versa.

 

A "bad" track often plays back correctly after a "good" track even after a DCS restart and it may take 2 or 3 replays before an IR image is rendered incorrectly.

 

As my existing IR test track was recorded in an older version (2.5.6.50973), I'll need to resave the mission and make a fresh track before uploading "good" and "bad" versions.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Ramsay

[Ramsay]

Here are two separately recorded tracks from 2.5.6.55743

 

The BAD track was flown with

 

Heat Blur = Low

Chimney Smoke Density = 5

 

the GOOD (no bug) track was flown with

 

Heat Blur = OFF

Chimney Smoke Density = 0

FA-18C AGM-65F FLIR test BAD - Heat Blur ON, Smoke Density 5, 2_5_6_55743.trk

FA-18C AGM-65F FLIR test GOOD - Heat Blur OFF, Smoke Density 0, 2_5_6_55743.trk

[BIGNEWY]

Thank you for the report.

 

I have reproduce with these settings and reported