TACAN A/A between fighters

[Talvid]

I heard Mover (C.W. Lemoine) talking about navigation and formation flying in inclement weather. He said that F/A-18s can activate their TACAN and use it to track each other. I tried this in stable, mission editor, and I was able to track a KC-135 tanker with TACAN 65X, but I also set an AI F-16 to activate TACAN 16X as well as an AI F-18 to activate TACAN 18X, and I am only able to get the tanker plane's TACAN up on my HSI/HSD. It would just be a pretty nifty feature to be able to track a flight lead, or wingman with TACAN Air/Air! Thanks already Eagle Dynamics, for an awesome sim, that keeps getting more awesome.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thalvid

[shindawg]

Hi ya Thalvid,

 

When setting up tacan between fighters you need to maintain a channel seperation of 63.

 

The below link will give you some background. Though written for the A-10 it should be the same for other NATO aircraft

 

https://www.mudspike.com/how-to-use-the-air-to-air-tacan-in-dcs-a-10c/

 

Excerpt below is taken from the linked article

 

"The trick to know here is that when you set a TACAN channel, you’re actually setting two different frequencies: a transmit frequency specific to that channel and a receive frequency that’s 63 MHz higher. TACAN channels are spaced by 1 MHz between channels, so setting a radio to a channel 63 higher than the transmitting aircraft (77X in our example) will mean you’re tuned to that’s aircraft TACAN transmissions. This is why the transmitting aircraft should be a channel between 1 and 63, so the receivers can tune to 64-126. The channel selected needs to be the same X or Y, as these represent completely different frequency sets, and the same TACAN mode (A/A T/R) needs to be selected to enable range calculation."

 

Cheers

Edited October 12, 2020 by shindawg
spelling error

[Talvid]

I went back into my mission and tried receiving TACAN 79X for the F-16 and TACAN 81X for the F-18, which I calculated to be 63 MHz higher than the stations I set them to transmit at. Still the TCN symbol on the HSI was just spinning. Maybe it only works in the A-10C.

[Nealius]

TCN symbol should be spinning even if it works because AA TACAN between fighters only gives distance, not bearing. If I recall correctly, to give both distance and bearing the TACAN equipment is too large/heavy to fit in a fighter, and is thus only in tankers, ships, and land bases.

[Frederf]

Ah, no. 79X is 1103/1166 MHz interrogate/reply and 81X is 1105/1168 MHz interrogate/reply. You want to pick channels where the interrogate/reply frequencies are reversed for the two airplanes. This can be tricky even if you look up frequency tables because X A/G, X A/A, Y A/G, Y A/A are four different frequency-channel associations (except Y A/G and Y A/A match but they have different pulse rate).

 

If both are using the same pulse code (X or Y) and both in A/A mode and 63 channels apart it should work. The Hornet is a bit special and not all channels are assured to work on all antennas but F-16 and A-10 should work fine any valid pairings.

[Talvid]

From what I can see on the UFC / DED is I can only punch in one Tacan number at a time. I'll see if I can get range info that matches the F10 map distance between blips, to figure it out.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thalvid

[Nealius]

Oh yeah, the Hornet is weird. I found this chart a while back but it seems fishy, because over half the A/A channels are marked as unavailable:

 

[Talvid]

Today's findings on the mission editor: I was able to get distance info on my HSI in both the F16 and F18 using the Tacan to tune in to 16X, 18X, 39X, and 41X. Like you said, Nealius, the bearing info isn't available but I was able to see the nm range to the aircraft. Now I'm curious as to whether it will work in multiplayer

[Frederf]

It should. Distance-only TACAN fighter-fighter is known as "yardstick" and it's normal not to have azimuth.

[Gruman]

Yardstick works with Multiplayer. Has since many, many years and is used daily by many DCS Pilots.

Just make sure the channels are properly assigned and you are in the A/A T&R mode.

[Talvid]

Yardstick works with Multiplayer. Has since many, many years and is used daily by many DCS Pilots.

Just make sure the channels are properly assigned and you are in the A/A T&R mode.

 

I was online yesterday, Jesto in a hornet was on 20X A/A TR, so was I, and there was innaccurate range info on the HSI. The Tacan 3 alpha code wasn't even there nor a way to set it.

[Frederf]

The identification letters are on the azimuth channel which the F-18 doesn't have. Both on 20x A/A shouldn't just be inaccurate it should not have any range at all.

 

If a third airplane was on 83x A/A then each of the first two 20x A/A airplanes would show range to him and not each other.

[Gruman]

Thalvid, did you get it going with Frederf's input?

As Nealius posted, I would suggest to select one of the white channel pairs.

 

Example:

Flightlead picks 37X

Wingman picks 100X (again, needs to be 63MHz/63 Channels above and from the same Table)

Both set to A/A T/R

 

And you should get a distance reading.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Oh yeah, the Hornet is weird. I found this chart a while back but it seems fishy, because over half the A/A channels are marked as unavailable:

It's not really unavailable, but the antennas share bandwidth for TACAN and MIDS, and for certain channels there's interference. That's why the lower TACAN channels shouldn't be used for A/A. There's also a difference between the upper and lower antenna. NATOPS explains this well, but I can't link that here due to forum rules.

[Gruman]

@Elysian Angel,

Thanks for this information. Makes a lot more sense now.

 

Will check out the NATOPS.

[Talvid]

Thalvid, did you get it going with Frederf's input?

As Nealius posted, I would suggest to select one of the white channel pairs.

 

Example:

Flightlead picks 37X

Wingman picks 100X (again, needs to be 63MHz/63 Channels above and from the same Table)

Both set to A/A T/R

 

And you should get a distance reading.

 

Yes, now that you guys explained it to my I get it. I just tested it. My assistant turned on 38X and I 101X and I saw his distance from me very accurately. thanks for helping me understand!

 

 

[Gruman]

Your welcome. Now disable Datalink and start practicing rejoins using TACAN A-A. ;). Good training when you loose your wingman.

[Notso]

I went back into my mission and tried receiving TACAN 79X for the F-16 and TACAN 81X for the F-18, which I calculated to be 63 MHz higher than the stations I set them to transmit at. Still the TCN symbol on the HSI was just spinning. Maybe it only works in the A-10C.

 

81-79 does not equal 63. Pick any tacan channel you want to you and either add or subtract 63. So for instance, if you want to use 10x for you - then set your wingman to 73X. Just make sure not to pick a ground tacan channel in your area, or else it won't work.

[Notso]

Now I'm curious as to whether it will work in multiplayer

 

Yes it absolutely works fine in MP.

[Talvid]

I've now used in during squadron missions, it works between the F-16, A-10, F-18 etc. Much thanks to everyone for coaching me on this

[GumidekCZ]

Bump

We still don't have any tool how to setup fighter to fighter Tacan for AI pilot in mission editor with proper +63 channel difference rule.

I still have to set same Tacan CH to get Yardstick on my AI lead aircraft. We all know that it's wrong. We are patiently waiting for this feature in ME since A-10C was released.

[upyr1]

yes