RED FLAG 14NOV2020

[TIGER]

 

Tiger, I appreciate the effort to continue the event in the 80´s/90's configuration, on behalf of the Tomcat Pilots, but, if this goes on, please give me an F18, the JF17 will be useless without the ability to carry out SD/LD-10 platforms. Best Regards bro.

 

Change done ;) S!

[TIGER]

 

Just one last question, is this going to impact Russian equipment at all? IE, will they be limited to R/T or will they get ER/ET and 77s as well? Not a complaint, just curious.

 

All weapons (BLUE AND RED) are going to be in numbers close to real life as how much weapons one airbase can have. It will be in limited numbers. So use them with caution ;)

 

S!

[*Rage*]

;n7136259]

 

RED Changed to one life. that's why i increased the red from 16 to 20.

 

At 20:00z 12NOV2020 I will open server with name "104th Server EVENT TEST" for mission testing. Feel free to join the test run.

 

S!

 

We'll try and join tonight

 

Are you aware of the bug where turning OFF ecm will instantly trash a missile thats within pitbull distances?

[Teknetinium]

 

We'll try and join tonight

 

Are you aware of the bug where turning OFF ecm will instantly trash a missile thats within pitbull distances?

 

Is there evidence that aim-120 should not be effected by jammers after pitbull? Not to mention chaff ;)

If so, show me.

[*Rage*]

 

Is there evidence that aim-120 should not be effected by jammers after pitbull? Not to mention chaff ;)

If so, show me.

 

Are you arguing that turning ecm OFF (not on) should 100% kill a missile within pitbull range? Because that is what is happening now in DCS. Even if its not targeted at you. For some reason turning ecm off functions like an emp charge. Its a bug.

[Teknetinium]

 

Are you arguing that turning ecm OFF (not on) should 100% kill a missile within pitbull range? Because that is what is happening now in DCS. Even if its not targeted at you. For some reason turning ecm off functions like an emp charge. Its a bug.

 

Bug? Confirmed by who? Link? kill 100% is not true. The bug is that F-16/F-18/F-14 are not effected by jammers.

[dundun92]

 

Bug? Confirmed by who? Link? kill 100% is not true. The bug is that F-16/F-18/F-14 are not effected by jammers.

 

Nobody is saying that the AMRAAM is unaffected by ECM IRL, thats completely irrelevant. The issue is that ECM has a bug vs the 120 and SD-10 where if you turn ECM on (whether before or after pitbull), then turn it OFF after active the missile has a 0% PK (aka stops guiding). Heres a tacview:

 

[Teknetinium]

 

Nobody is saying that the AMRAAM is unaffected by ECM IRL, thats completely irrelevant. The issue is that ECM has a bug vs the 120 and SD-10 where if you turn ECM on (whether before or after pitbull), then turn it OFF after active the missile has a 0% PK (aka stops guiding). Heres a tacview:

 

It has not been confirmed as a bug by ED, It might be intended until you get effected by jammers. So when Ed confirm this as a bug then it is :) For what I know ED did confirm it was not.

[Coxy_99]

 

Are you arguing that turning ecm OFF (not on) should 100% kill a missile within pitbull range? Because that is what is happening now in DCS. Even if its not targeted at you. For some reason turning ecm off functions like an emp charge. Its a bug.

 

 

Funny that is there not a chaff bug but its still used right? So this event no chaff to be used correct? And atleast thats a proper public bug report.

[Breakshot]

Well put Coxy. If ECM is "bugged" for actually doing something as it should, making people support their missiles or risk reducing Pk. Whilst chaff is completely broken for SARH guidance, which is a confirmed bug by ED, yet is still being used. Where is the logic?

 

In any case, Im all for to fly without ECM and Chaff. Either both are in or both should be out

[*Rage*]

It is confirmed by ED.

[Teknetinium]

It is confirmed by ED.

 

So we dont use Chaff then since it is confirmed as a bug? Can you show me ED conforming the jammer bug?

[Coxy_99]

It is confirmed by ED.

 

Its not ive asked 3 times, So how would you know wheres the sauce?

[TIGER]

Thank you all that you participate on mission testing. S!

 

current problems that will be fixed immediately

F-14 fuel tanks are not in the inventory --- FIXED AND TESTED

F-14 litening in position 8B doesn't exist -- FIXED AND TESTED

F/A-18C fuel tanks are not in inventory -- FIXED AND TESTED

F/A-18C litening you can add it in position 5 but not in 4 -- FIXED AND TESTED

F/A-18C AWW-13 datalink for the Walleye doesn't exist -- FIXED AND TESTED

Downed plane destruction from plane trigger didn't work

accidently the F5 view was open but that was from server -- FIXED AND TESTED

 

 

Additional Info for the Misssion

I am reviewing the ECM problem. If this problem still exist then I will remove ALL ECM pods. The decision will be made tomorrow Friday 13NOV2020.

 

Additional info for the BLUE TEAM

Waypoints

WP0 RAMAT

WP1 BULLSEYE

WP2 JABAH DIVISION

WP3 SCUD CONVOY (Secondary Mission)

WP4 SAMS (FORWARD EWR site with SAMS)

WP5 HUNTERS CONVOY STARTING POINT

WP6 SA-2 SITE SOUTH

WP7 DOWNED PLANE (Primary Mission)

WP8 LANDING

 

Thank you again for participating for the mission test

See you at RED TEAM AND BLUE TEAM BRIEFING: 13NOV2020 19:00z (subject to change so all will participate) 104th teamspeak

 

S!

[Breakshot]

I am reviewing the ECM problem.

 

Is the chaff problem being reviewed as well then? I dont think you need documentation for that as its been confirmed by ED as WIP to fix on missiles thread.

 

[BIGNEWY]

ECM has not been changed for a long time, it works as it always has, but is basic. We want to do better with ECM but as with anything it will take time.

 

If you think there is a bug we would need to reproduce it, if you have short track replays showing a bug please make a new thread and we will take a look.

 

thanks

[Teknetinium]

So we are left with Chaff bug. Could we look into event with no chaff. would be fun to test.

[TIGER]

ECM has not been changed for a long time, it works as it always has, but is basic. We want to do better with ECM but as with anything it will take time.

 

If you think there is a bug we would need to reproduce it, if you have short track replays showing a bug please make a new thread and we will take a look.

 

thanks

 

Thank you Bignewy clearing this problem. I am inviting you or other ED staff to take game master slot to see in real time the event to see game & missile behaviors.

 

I am letting the mission as it is.

 

S!

[BIGNEWY]

brief update, my last comment was incorrect, I've been made aware of a reported issue. I will chase it up in the morning. I'm currently in bed :)

[Breakshot]

brief update, my last comment was incorrect, I've been made aware of a reported issue. I will chase it up in the morning. I'm currently in bed :)

Great, can we actually get a clarification from ED on how they intend to model ECM to affect missile tracking performance?

 

Also can we get an update when ED will fix the SARH Chaff bug?

 

IMO both are crucial issues that potentially affect gameplay (especially MP competitive) that need to be addressed.

 

The latter issue has been reported for YEARS, without ever a finger lifted.

 

Fix SARH missiles!

 

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

 

 

[BIGNEWY]

All I know at the moment is we have two issue's reported

 

The SARH Chaff issue, I have asked for a progress update.

 

and

 

Whenever a plane turns Jammer OFF when missile goes pitbul, the missile will die.

2 parameters needed to achieve this:

 

1. Target has to be in the lookdown from the missiles perspective

2. Missile must be unsupported in pitbul stage

 

It is a high priority issue, but I do not have a time scale yet, I will follow it and let you know as I get information.

 

Wider work on ECM is a huge task and is not a near term task, so we will need to be patient for that, ECM overhaul is something for the future.

 

thank you

[Breakshot]

Thanks for the clarification BN.

 

In light of this I propose that we fly this event without ECM and Chaff. I think that would ensure fairest competitive environment for all platforms.

 

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

 

 

[Kapsu]

SF roster updated: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/dcs-world-topics/tournaments/7115959-red-flag-14nov2020?p=7116433#post7116433

 

I'm not sure if anyone from us can attend red side briefing today.

[Teknetinium]

Agree Coxy, If we want to take jammer bug in to concidiration that effect AIM-120 then we should take ER chaff bug in to consideration as well since it effect ER-27. Quite simple but it seams many see things only from their own perspective. Some time this people need a reminder :)

[hellrequiem]

Agree Coxy, If we want to take jammer bug in to concidiration that effect AIM-120 then we should take ER chaff bug in to consideration as well since it effect ER-27. Quite simple but it seams many see things only from their own perspective. Some time this people need a reminder :)

 

+1, It seems to me that, once the 120 have problems, everybody puts a finger in that flag, but R27 platforms have this kind of problems from Y E A R S and no one gives a shot.