Any plans to add more weapons?

[Hodo]

10 hours ago, mseraser said:

First pic from our post more than half year before module release, second pic using our loadout icon from game. You'll find many jeff search results actually come from us.

So if it is from you why didn't you go with that loadout?  

 

And with more information on the Block 2 and 3 JFs no longer having smoking engines is this a possibility?

[Mike_Romeo]

14 minutes ago, Hodo said:

So if it is from you why didn't you go with that loadout?  

 

And with more information on the Block 2 and 3 JFs no longer having smoking engines is this a possibility?

 

Because there is no evidence that they realy can carry them on those pylons. Show them a real life photo of BRM-1 90's, doubble racks or cluster bombs at the inner pylons or show them a real/official dokument and I am sure Deka will add them. Because of the engines, we have a Block 1 Jeff, so no smokeless engine for us. BTW I am pretty sure that the smokeless engines are newer engines and so they wont be many informations aviable.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[Hodo]

42 minutes ago, Mike_Romeo said:

 

Because there is no evidence that they realy can carry them on those pylons. Show them a real life photo of BRM-1 90's, doubble racks or cluster bombs at the inner pylons or show them a real/official dokument and I am sure Deka will add them. Because of the engines, we have a Block 1 Jeff, so no smokeless engine for us. BTW I am pretty sure that the smokeless engines are newer engines and so they wont be many informations aviable.

 

From what I have been able to glean over about twelve hours of research this weekend.   They have never mounted rocket pods on stations 3 and 5.  But there has been tests of the SD-10 on the wingtip stations of 1 and 7.  The PAF has begun replacing or upgrading all existing JF-17s to the newer smokeless RD93 engines.  But this is mostly a block upgrade from Block 1 to Block 2 and 3 models.  The 3 model is the biggest change in the airframe.  It sheds weight gains a EEC system for the engine, a new radar and a different tail for better control at high AoA.  The Block 3 also goes 3 axis FBW.  And allegedly they have further reduced the cross section of the aircraft with new composite materials and "stealth" paint... That last one I would take with a grain of salt.  

 

Also all versions can have the gun swapped from the 23mm to the 30mm for air to ground support.  But not sure this is something that would effect us much in game.  

 

Another thing the JF is also capable of using the AIM-9L/M, PL-5E, PL-9C.  And a newer ARM the MAR-1 on the wing 2 and 6 pylons.  

 

Finding images or pictures of the aircraft loaded with any of this is nearly impossible without going in theater and attempting to get them yourself.  And with the world environment being the way it is now that IS impossible.   

 

There is video of the JF-17 with smokeless engines from an airshow two or three years ago.  

 

Now with all of that said. I have never been asking for BRM rocket pods on the inner hardpoints.  

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hodo

[AeriaGloria]

I’m afraid some of your information may have been proposals or things that were parroted by non official sources. If you heard of SD-10 wingtip use from reputable source please link it. The idea of switching out 23mm for 30mm seemed to only be a proposal and never actually done. The block 3 does not have a different tail, the JF-17B has a vertical stabilizer with greater sweep to increase the yaw stability that was lost by the larger canopy and fuselage. I have not heard anything about max AOA changes. 

 

The RD-93MA has less smoke and will be used on block 3 and I heard of an official statement saying they plan to upgrade block 1-2 with RD-93MA, but I have not seen this statement and if it is planned it is likely only a plan at this time, I believe China only bought RD-93MA from Russia just last year. 
 

Your weapons info is likely outdated and fan information, it can’t and was never planned to carry AIM-9 or PL-9C. The MAR-1 was test flown with a dummy once but Brazil could not source any ARM seekers so production was cancelled and LD-10/C-101 was used instead. 
 

the air show footage of JF-17 with low smoke engine is likely from when it flew the circuit with WS-13 shortly before pandemic on a demonstration bird, it is not planned to be used by the PAF and I have not heard of it being cleared for export yet. PAF built a RD-93 overhaul facility recently so due to pre existing infrastructure and training will stick with the RD-93 variants for the near future. 

 

the load out chart by Deka I believe was revised as soon as they got more up to date information that’s why there is two, I believe what MsEraser was saying is think of those as earlier in development and what you see in game as revised with being more conservative and closer to reality. 

 

Any official or reputable information to the contrary would be gladly accepted here and please link it here if you find any, but keep in mind many load out diagrams you find on the internet are made by fans who often just make graphics off of what they want or what they think “should” work and not what is necessarily reality. People see these pictures and parrot things like PL-9 and other capability, but it is not true. Many of these rumors may have come from proposals early in development, but they were just that, “proposals”
 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by AeriaGloria

[Hodo]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:05 PM, AeriaGloria said:

I’m afraid some of your information may have been proposals or things that were parroted by non official sources. If you heard of SD-10 wingtip use from reputable source please link it. The idea of switching out 23mm for 30mm seemed to only be a proposal and never actually done. The block 3 does not have a different tail, the JF-17B has a vertical stabilizer with greater sweep to increase the yaw stability that was lost by the larger canopy and fuselage. I have not heard anything about max AOA changes. 

 

The RD-93MA has less smoke and will be used on block 3 and I heard of an official statement saying they plan to upgrade block 1-2 with RD-93MA, but I have not seen this statement and if it is planned it is likely only a plan at this time, I believe China only bought RD-93MA from Russia just last year. 
 

Your weapons info is likely outdated and fan information, it can’t and was never planned to carry AIM-9 or PL-9C. The MAR-1 was test flown with a dummy once but Brazil could not source any ARM seekers so production was cancelled and LD-10/C-101 was used instead. 
 

the air show footage of JF-17 with low smoke engine is likely from when it flew the circuit with WS-13 shortly before pandemic on a demonstration bird, it is not planned to be used by the PAF and I have not heard of it being cleared for export yet. PAF built a RD-93 overhaul facility recently so due to pre existing infrastructure and training will stick with the RD-93 variants for the near future. 

 

the load out chart by Deka I believe was revised as soon as they got more up to date information that’s why there is two, I believe what MsEraser was saying is think of those as earlier in development and what you see in game as revised with being more conservative and closer to reality. 

 

Any official or reputable information to the contrary would be gladly accepted here and please link it here if you find any, but keep in mind many load out diagrams you find on the internet are made by fans who often just make graphics off of what they want or what they think “should” work and not what is necessarily reality. People see these pictures and parrot things like PL-9 and other capability, but it is not true. Many of these rumors may have come from proposals early in development, but they were just that, “proposals”
 

 

 

I am continuing to search.  It appears the PAF is pretty tight lipped about the weapons capabilities of the JF.  And the Chinese don't often give information out to western sources or even Asian sources.  

 

Aside from some very grainy pictures I have found that do not confirm or deny anything I have found.  Hell one of the pictures is so bad it looks like it has a harpoon under the wings.  But are most likely drop tanks.  

 

Granted I have also not found any evidence of the JF-17 block 1/2 that we have having the dual SD/LD 10 racks.  

 

Not that I want that to go away.

 

I mean as long as the F-16 has four HARM missiles.....

 

 

[Blinky.ben]

2 hours ago, Hodo said:

 

 

Granted I have also not found any evidence of the JF-17 block 1/2 that we have having the dual SD/LD 10 racks.  

 

 

[Hodo]

38 minutes ago, Blinky.ben said:

Unfortunately I didn't count those when I found them because they are mock ups.  I have been looking for in service pictures.  

 

 

[AeriaGloria]

That’s becuase it’s not used in service. If you play with JF-17 in mission editor you find quad SD-10s and fuel tanks puts it close to or over MTOW. It limits range and speed, in addition the radar can only fire on two targets in once. When you remember that it replaced Mirage III with only two BVR missiles it makes sense. They just do not need the capability yet. Things might change with RD-93MA and AESA block 3 but I don’t think they will when it comes to normal practical load out.

 

it’s just like how you don’t see any in service pictures of F-18 with ten AMRAAMs, or in service pictures of Flankers flying regular missions with 10-12 missiles, or why there were two unused wing pylons on the F-15 since inception that are only planned to be used on F-15X. It’s cool but not entirely practical in an operational scenario. 
 

Maybe PAF has them laying around for  when war breaks out and they know those SD-10s will be used, but no reason to carry four when your doing border patrol

 

edit: not to mention weapons can only spend a certain amount of time in the air before they have to be despised. No reason to go through a commodity of needing to fire more then two BVRs in one fight is not a common occurrence 

Edited January 28, 2021 by AeriaGloria

[naizarak]

but how many of those weapons actually exist?

[Blackjackk]

I know this was mentioned previously, but will we be getting the CM-400AKG?

Edited February 4, 2021 by Blackjackk

[unknown]

12 hours ago, Blackjackk said:

I know this was mentioned previously, but will we be getting the CM-400AKG?

Have a look at page 1 of this thread, the first post of uboats:

  

On 1/21/2021 at 1:56 AM, uboats said:

planning CM-400AKG and LS-6 100/250, but not guaranteed

 

[Kerbo 416]

3 hours ago, unknown said:

Have a look at page 1 of this thread, the first post of uboats:

  

 

I can't wait for the 400! It'll br pretty awesome

[Kerbo 416]

are there any plans to add the LT-6?

[unknown]

5 hours ago, Kerbo 416 said:

I can't wait for the 400! It'll br pretty awesome

For sure would be a nice addition to the Jeff. 

[AeriaGloria]

13 hours ago, Kerbo 416 said:

are there any plans to add the LT-6?

Those are LS, a different company, I’m pretty sure these are the ones they referred to as possible in the first couple pages of this thread. With GBU-54 the API for dual guidance is there. Also makes the CM-400AKG possible along with the ballistic FM being done for Scud. 
 

but yeah it is confusing with LT, LS, FT, and many different types of weapons companies that make similar or comparable weapons. I believe that’s the Chinese military philosophy, have multiple companies working on comparable products and eventually going with the one that works best. It’s very similar in regards to making their version of another countries weapon. They often seem to have one company do a solution that is very similar to another country and have another company work on an equivalent solution that is more innovative and indigenous in design. It’s interesting philosophy

 

funny enough LS(Luoyang), FT, and LT manufacturers are all subsidiaries of CASC, I forget if AVIC has any equivalent PGM programs. They seem to focus on the airframes themselves, as Shenyang, Chengdu, Hongdu, Harbin, Xian are all apart of AVIC.

 

there’s also CASIC, and things get so confusing I think I mixed myself up lol. One of those things I’ve been wanting someone knowledgeable to talk about 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by AeriaGloria

[Kerbo 416]

11 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Those are LS, a different company, I’m pretty sure these are the ones they referred to as possible in the first couple pages of this thread. With GBU-54 the API for dual guidance is there. Also makes the CM-400AKG possible along with the ballistic FM being done for Scud. 
 

but yeah it is confusing with LT, LS, FT, and many different types of weapons companies that make similar or comparable weapons. I believe that’s the Chinese military philosophy, have multiple companies working on comparable products and eventually going with the one that works best. It’s very similar in regards to making their version of another countries weapon. They often seem to have one company do a solution that is very similar to another country and have another company work on an equivalent solution that is more innovative and indigenous in design. It’s interesting philosophy

 

funny enough LS(Luoyang), FT, and LT manufacturers are all subsidiaries of CASC, I forget if AVIC has any equivalent PGM programs. They seem to focus on the airframes themselves, as Shenyang, Chengdu, Hongdu, Harbin, Xian are all apart of AVIC.

 

there’s also CASIC, and things get so confusing I think I mixed myself up lol. One of those things I’ve been wanting someone knowledgeable to talk about 

 

 

 

damn you know your Chinese aviation industry 

[Hodo]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:15 AM, Kerbo 416 said:

damn you know your Chinese aviation industry 

It's easy when it's a passion.  

 

I was the same way at one time about tanks.  Mostly specializing in Western and Russian armored vehicles.

[lamkuen]

I would like to suggest adding PL-15 AA missile.  I've tried adding this missile from the Chinese J-20 mode to JF-17.  It's really cool and devastating!:)

In youtube and other Indian/Pakistan news, there're lots of talks comparing it with India's Rafale's meteor missile.  I've used the Rafale mod by Cuesta Brothers to stage a fight with JF-17 carrying PL-15 and it is really interesting.

[Mike_Romeo]

Wont happen since the JF-17 doesnt carry them in real life. DCS is a simulator and not a game. That one picture btw shows only a prototype.

 

[Mustang25]

I think the LS-6 100 and 250s would be the some of the best additions to the JF-17 since we've lost the BRMs on the inner pylons. Being able to double or triple rack (does that even exist for the JF-17?) them on a pylon would bring some welcome firepower back to the aircraft. I would also think that the implementation of it in the game would be pretty straight forward as far as integrating it into the cockpit goes so I hope Deka has enough info on it to be included.

[J20Stronk]

1 hour ago, Mustang25 said:

I think the LS-6 100 and 250s would be the some of the best additions to the JF-17 since we've lost the BRMs on the inner pylons. Being able to double or triple rack (does that even exist for the JF-17?) them on a pylon would bring some welcome firepower back to the aircraft. I would also think that the implementation of it in the game would be pretty straight forward as far as integrating it into the cockpit goes so I hope Deka has enough info on it to be included.

Multi-rack on the inner stations seems to be a lost cause for this module, even if the bomb and connectors are plausible to fit.

 

Deka are taking a very conservative approach to the JF-17 loadout, so unless they find pics or info confirming MER'd LS-6-100/250 on the inner stations, don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

[Mustang25]

35 minutes ago, J20Stronk said:

Multi-rack on the inner stations seems to be a lost cause for this module, even if the bomb and connectors are plausible to fit.

 

Deka are taking a very conservative approach to the JF-17 loadout, so unless they find pics or info confirming MER'd LS-6-100/250 on the inner stations, don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

 

I think that even if they limit it to the outer racks (which I agree that they probably won't do it for the inner pylons) it'll still be a capability upgrade IMO. Currently the only thing you can double rack out there are the GB-12s and dumb bombs. So being able to double the amount of GPS munitions while still carrying two bags will be nice. And I could only dream that they add TERs or MERs on those pylons for those SDBs. lol 

 

Are there even any pics at all of those small LS-6s mounted on racks? I've only seen pictures of them on static display mounts at trade shows.

[Tiger-II]

Deka have taken the "real-life or nothing" line, which is totally understandable.

 

As was mentioned further up, many aircraft "can" carry lots of things, but in service they never have for one reason or another.

 

Some capabilities are "just because", and others were maybe original design options but then never used. There are many examples where an aircraft was supposed to carry something, then it didn't materialize because the situation or doctrine changed, or technology simply advanced.

 

Missiles/rockets on the inboard pylons have been discussed numerous times before. They may be smaller rockets, but they are dirtier and cause problems (it's not simply smoke but particles of rocket propellant which are like hard small stones and with the rotational velocity of the fan blades, damages the engine like grains of sand).

 

Even the gun has potential to disrupt engine flow, which is why it is mounted so far back.

 

I think they experimented with an intake deflector, but it was more trouble than it was worth.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Tiger-II

[Hodo]

I just want to be able to carry a mk20s under the inboard pylons.  

 

I don't understand why those... Which are bombs... Dumb bombs at that can't be fitted where you can mount other bombs of the same size?

[[PTF]Ali]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:56 AM, uboats said:

planning CM-400AKG and LS-6 100/250, but not guaranteed

hope we will see CM-400AKG soon, I'm pretty excited