AIM-7 is ARH in multiplayer

[Cmptohocah]

It seems that there is either some sort of bug in MP or in my TacView recording (the recording comes from the server), but it seems that AIM-7 is tracking with its own radar emitter.

[Flappie]

It's highly probable the MiG-29A pilot had not cut off his jammer. All variants of the AIM-7 missile present in the game are Home on Jam capable.

 

See here:

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Flappie

[Coxy_99]

Im afraid Cmptohocah is correct funny enough its been like this for a while i have the longest aim-7mh kill in dcs as it stands and once radar lock is broken it guides for a VERY long time no HOJ shots 2 kills in one pass quite funny. Either that or its memory mode seeker once lock is broken is over 10 seconds guidance, Which is complete DCS MEME and complete BS.

[Cmptohocah]

57 minutes ago, Flappie said:

It's highly probable the MiG-29A pilot had not cut off his jammer. All variants of the AIM-7 missile present in the game are Home on Jam capable.

 

See here:

 

 

Highly improbable I would say, since MiG-29A has no jammer.

 

51 minutes ago, Coxy_99 said:

Im afraid Cmptohocah is correct funny enough its been like this for a while i have the longest aim-7mh kill in dcs as it stands and once radar lock is broken it guides for a VERY long time no HOJ shots 2 kills in one pass quite funny. Either that or its memory mode seeker once lock is broken is over 10 seconds guidance, Which is complete DCS MEME and complete BS.

This was no memory turn, but a full on ARH maneuver.

[Flappie]

12 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said:

Highly improbable I would say, since MiG-29A has no jammer.

I didn't know about this. I stand corrected.

Do you have the track of the issue?

[Cmptohocah]

9 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Do you have the track of the issue?

Don't know why I can't send a direct link, but you can download it from here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1G-DxYBsWnxSxhdEwCPMuJJJtPLPK6WJY

Search for a track that contains `211928` in it's name.

[QuiGon]

Interesting, that's the first such report I see, were HOJ can be ruled out.

So yeah, this seems like there is indeed something really off about the AIM-7 guidance.

Edited January 29, 2021 by QuiGon

[Flappie]

@CmptohocahThese are Tacview ACMIs, which are useful to show this "really happened". I was asking for a DCS track (.trk), which allows one to try an reproduce an issue.

 

Just now, QuiGon said:

Interesting, that's the first such report I see, were HOJ can be ruled out. So yeah, this seems like there is indeed something really off about the AIM-7 guidance.

Same here.

Maybe it's possble to reproduce this bug in SP. I'll give it a go.

[Krippz]

There's an existing bug where flood mode causes the AIM-7 to behave like a ARH missile. Already reported.

[Coxy_99]

1 hour ago, Krippz said:

There's an existing bug where flood mode causes the AIM-7 to behave like a ARH missile. Already reported.

 

Might want to check STT pulse on F-14 then, We didnt have flood mode.

[Krippz]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:35 PM, Coxy_99 said:

 

Might want to check STT pulse on F-14 then, We didnt have flood mode.

Maybe this is better for a different thread but the F-14 has a boresight mode that allows the Sparrow to be fired in CW mode that uses the flood antenna on the AWG-9. If you have a concern make a thread and post a track.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Krippz

[QuiGon]

14 hours ago, Krippz said:

Maybe this is better for a different thread but the F-14 has a boresight mode that allows the Phoenix to be fired in CW mode that uses the flood antenna on the AWG-9. If you have a concern make a thread and post a track.

I guess you meant Sparrow instead of Phoenix?

[Coxy_99]

Not talking aim-54 but aim-7mh not sure if the MH and just aim-7 run off the same code but i launched 2x fox-1 aim-7mh both acted as if they were active, Not sure if it matters on another thread aim-7 is well aim-7 The lock was completely broken and hit 2 targets with fox1 in one pass im not even sure how that is possible? Like i said before unless when the lock is broken it has a memory of 10 seconds plus once the lock is broken, Bore sight was not used just locked with radar.

[Krippz]

On 1/30/2021 at 6:59 AM, QuiGon said:

I guess you meant Sparrow instead of Phoenix?

Yep.

[SgtPappy]

I've had something like this happen to me once where I lost lock a target (M2k) in my F-15 for the rest of the fight and he got shot down. We messaged each other in the chat and he thought I killed him but then I checked the tacview and my AIM-7MH hit from something like ~15 nm near sea level even though I turned away at one point while terrain masking. Need to find the tacview later if I still have it.

 

I've only observed it once unfortunately, cannot reproduce so far.

Edited February 2, 2021 by SgtPappy

[GGTharos]

On 1/31/2021 at 7:07 AM, Coxy_99 said:

Not talking aim-54 but aim-7mh not sure if the MH and just aim-7 run off the same code but i launched 2x fox-1 aim-7mh both acted as if they were active, Not sure if it matters on another thread aim-7 is well aim-7 The lock was completely broken and hit 2 targets with fox1 in one pass im not even sure how that is possible? Like i said before unless when the lock is broken it has a memory of 10 seconds plus once the lock is broken, Bore sight was not used just locked with radar.

 

The real question is, can you reproduce this?  If it's a thing that happens once in a blue moon it's going to be difficult.  Raging about it doesn't help.  Helping the devs nail it down helps.  Memory mode is meaningless semantically if lock is broken - it's basically an instruction that says 'try to detect it again according to the track history' on whatever level this can be implemented, it's not guidance.

 

No illumination = no track after all for a SARH missile, but the devs need help nailing this bug down.

Edited February 2, 2021 by GGTharos

[Coxy_99]

2 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

The real question is, can you reproduce this?  If it's a thing that happens once in a blue moon it's going to be difficult.  Raging about it doesn't help.  Helping the devs nail it down helps.  Memory mode is meaningless semantically if lock is broken - it's basically an instruction that says 'try to detect it again according to the track history' on whatever level this can be implemented, it's not guidance.

 

No illumination = no track after all for a SARH missile, but the devs need help nailing this bug down.

 

 

Yes it can it was watched in F-10 tracking the target in MP on a server (104th before the whole ECM update) No i dont have tracks or a tacview, I tend to delete tacviews and track files disables to save space.

[GGTharos]

Let me rephrase.   If you want to help the devs, produce a short track where this happens - ie. where you can reproduce it.

Edited February 2, 2021 by GGTharos

[Coxy_99]

Nope no i wont, However i know full well its active got a great GIF 43KM double kill in a 3v1. And seen the same thing in the 104th server f10 map aim7mh tracking while RTB  no bore sight used no HOJ im not bothrred ill keeping using them as little amraams what a meme of a sim lololol

[captain_dalan]

4 hours ago, Coxy_99 said:

Nope no i wont

That's not very helpful