Taking advantage of an offer to improve Setting Results

[Glide]

1 minute ago, Fakum said:

ok, so I will take SSAA off the table for now then,, I have been switching back and forth today, havnt seen a difference yet, and I have been matching the NCP to those changes, which actually brings me to another important question. I can change NCP settings on the fly right? I can keep DCS open while Im making changes in there right? Or do I need to close out DCS every change in NCP?

 

It seems right now, no matter what I do, I am getting 120 FPS solid, I know that's what its says on the FPS counter, I cant help to believe something else must be getting robbed? Wit thta being said, i'm more than satisfied with the FPS, now i just gotta figure out the right combination of settings to get the jittery motion smoothed out, which is what Im noticing primarily looking left or right. that would be my goal at this point,,, smooooooooth!

Turn off all SSAA and MSAA in DCS.  You have high resolution, so this should be tolerable.  Turn off Terrain Object Shadows to save a bunch of FPS.  Turn water to medium to save some FPS.  That is a pretty lean setup, and great for testing.  Fly like that for a week.  Then add back any SSAA or MSAA you feel you need.  So glad it's better!

[Fakum]

 

 

No,, havnt touched that,,,I forgot about even trying that with all the other stuff I hav been fiddling with,,, thanks for reminding me

 

Just now, glide said:

Turn off all SSAA and MSAA in DCS.  You have high resolution, so this should be tolerable.  Turn off Terrain Object Shadows to save a bunch of FPS.  Turn water to medium to save some FPS.  That is a pretty lean setup, and great for testing.  Fly like that for a week.  Then add back any SSAA or MSAA you feel you need.  So glad it's better!

I will experiment with that, but right now, it looks like my FPS is NOT something Im trying to improve on, as it is rock solid at 120. I think I should be focusing on the stuttering instead? I dont know if those things you told me to adjust will make things more fluid, but at the sacrifice of picture quality/sharpness/clarity?

[Lange_666]

3 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

@silverdevil: i have the same problem.

Difficult to see when you are in "real" Full Screen mode. Alt-Enter puts you in it if you're not but out if you're in. I see no difference between the two. I have Full Screen ticked in DCS so i assume it's running in FS. If not... then it's not.

 

3 hours ago, glide said:

@silverdevil @Lange_666 Yeah, I never had any issues with fullscreen mode, and I've never done the Alt-Enter dance.  I always run DCS in the same resolution as the monitor.  This is probably an old red herring.

 

I run DCS in the monitors native res to so the screen is always "full".

To define what ALT+Enter does i ran some tests by choosing a smaller res then native and then switch between Full screen ticked or not:

Findings:

- If Full Screen is ticked, DCS starts full screen, if you then press ALT+Enter, it switches to the selected res.

- If Full screen is not ticked, DCS starts at the selected res and ALT-Enter then switches it to full screen, so the opposite from the one above.

 

[Lange_666]

@Fakum If you have that jiddery motion when looking sideways, is that with VSync turned on?

I can't get rid of that stutter when VSync is OFF, no matter what setting i try or how high my FPS is. VSync ON and it's smooth (with TrackIR that is).

[Fakum]

VSYNC is OFF, GSYNC=ON. TrackIR=ON, are you suggesting that I turn VSYNC ON, If so what do I do about GYSYNC?

 

 

 

 

 

Thats really weird!!!! I say that because I switch my monito FROM my typical Desktop preferred resolution of 1680 x 1050 TO 3840 x 1600 BEFORE i start DCS because my DCS Resolution is set for 3840 x 1600. If I dont make that switch 1st, DCS will pop up and all of its GUI is not shown, and I cant click on any features because they are not shown.

 

So now that the desktop res matches the dcs res, when I run DCS, FPS is about 60, I then hit ALT-ENT and FPS becomes 120 solid. There is no resolution differences between what the monitor is set for compared to DCS settings,,, so I dont get that? I do understand what you meant when you compared 2 different settings.

[Lange_666]

I need to have VSync set to ON to get rid of the side jitter. I also have GSync ON. GSync alone doesn't cut it. The jitter is not caused by tearing, it's just a mismatch between non VSync and TrackIR (there are enough discussions about this on this forum).

 

My test was just to see what Alt-Enter does when full screen is ticked or not.

If full screen is ticked you start out full screen and go to windowed mode if you hit ALT-Enter.

If full screen is NOT ticked, it starts in windowed mode (which can be as big as full screen depending if both DCS res and the monitor res match) and ALT-enter brings it to full screen.

[Glide]

19 minutes ago, Fakum said:

If I dont make that switch 1st, DCS will pop up and all of its GUI is not shown, and I cant click on any features because they are not shown.

This is normal.  Its fine to run DCS lower than the desktop resolution, but goes bonkers when you run DCS higher than the desktop resolution. 

 

Also, always change only one thing at a time.  So, turn off Gsync, leave Vsync off, and test without SSAA or MSAA, Water = Medium, Terrain Shadow's off.  This should be your baseline for testing.  Then toggle Vsync by changing the Vsync setting in DCS, and compare. 

24 minutes ago, Fakum said:

I then hit ALT-ENT and FPS becomes 120 solid

I don't see any change, by my card is 3 years old now.  I'm going to test with vsync and see.

[Fakum]

Ok, gottcha, and by the way, i turned Gsync off, and i still only have OFF or 1X as an option under SSAA (Topic for another thread, and its not important to me right now)

 

So what about my question regarding NCP settings on the fly thanks?

 

[Glide]

7 minutes ago, Fakum said:

So what about my question regarding NCP settings on the fly thanks?

I was just coming to this.  Don't know which settings you can change on the fly in NCP.  I always exit DCS, change NCP, then start DCS.  Clean slate. 

9 minutes ago, Fakum said:

Ok, gottcha, and by the way, i turned Gsync off, and i still only have OFF or 1X as an option under SSAA (Topic for another thread, and its not important to me right now)

No worries, these are not related.  I was going to ask if you have the latest Nvidia driver installed.  Click the system info button.

[Fakum]

I actually just updated my driver a week or so ago, then another update came out right after, but i havnt updated to it just yet. Maybe I should do that soon before I really get involved here. Thanks

[Glide]

2 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

To define what ALT+Enter

Just ran an interesting test.  My card does ~70-80 fps on the runway in PG with vsync OFF. 

 

When I enable vsync in the NCP and press Alt+Enter, it toggles vsync on and off.  ie. it goes from 60 solid fps, to 70-80ish fps and back again.

 

When I enable vsync in DCS settings and press Alt+Enter, it doesn't toggle.  Stays at 60fps for both.

 

I tried this with both Full screen selected and deselected.

[Glide]

@Fakum @silverdevil I would like you guys to run this test.  Turn off vsync/gsync.  Turn off MSAA,SSAA,and AF.  Water to medium, terrain object shadows off.  This is the baseline.  Then in the NCP set Max Frame Rate = 90.  Then test on Caucasus map.  I can't do this because it's way over my specs.  This should be just as smooth as vsync ON, but I suspect it will be better because your card has a better chance of hitting 90 than 120.  My card can't keep up to that.

[Fakum]

I will giv it a shot tomorrow,, I just went into multiplayer for over an hour with 3 different modules,, FPS held solid at 120, never dropped below. I am blown away at this for now,,,, nice crisp graphics and pretty dam smooth, no DCS Settings changes yet done except its in Full Screen

[Glide]

1 hour ago, Fakum said:

I will giv it a shot tomorrow,, I just went into multiplayer for over an hour with 3 different modules,, FPS held solid at 120, never dropped below. I am blown away at this for now,,,, nice crisp graphics and pretty dam smooth, no DCS Settings changes yet done except its in Full Screen

Nice work!  I had forgotten how much I love vsync, so I have traded SSAA and SSLR for vsync.  Super nice and smooth.  Thanks for testing.

[Lange_666]

6 hours ago, glide said:

Just ran an interesting test.  My card does ~70-80 fps on the runway in PG with vsync OFF. 

 

When I enable vsync in the NCP and press Alt+Enter, it toggles vsync on and off.  ie. it goes from 60 solid fps, to 70-80ish fps and back again.

 

When I enable vsync in DCS settings and press Alt+Enter, it doesn't toggle.  Stays at 60fps for both.

 

I tried this with both Full screen selected and deselected.

 

Add a different resolution into the equation. Select one which is lower then your monitor resolution. Only then you will see the entire difference between full screen on/off and switching with ALT-Enter on both.

[Glide]

4 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

then you will see the entire difference

This is why @Fakum gets the better frame rates.  Nvidia may have a trouble syncing when DCS is not in fullscreen mode.  But, DCS vsync works no matter what. 

[Fakum]

I just want to clear up what appears to be a misconception here. I get the 120 solid FPS with Fullscreen checked and unchecked, VSync on or off. When I start DCS and get into an instant action, i am seeing about 60ish FPS, as soon as I hit ALt-ENT. it jumps to 120 and locks there. Thats with Fullscreen in either mode, and with VYSYNC on or off. And by the way, I was testing vsync from only within NCP. Last nites test run in multiplayer was with GSync off, Vsync Fast, Full screen checked on. My original DCS Options for graphics remain untouched otherwise at this time. Like I said earlier, the MAJOR change came when I restored NCP Global settings to default, added DCS to the programs list and altered only a few suggested settings in this thread. And I cant emphasize enough, I noticed right off the bat that as soon as I started TrackIR on the desktop, I didnt see ANY FPS drop like I always did in the past,, 120 down to 10 is now non existent. I believe there might be a relationship there. I know for certain in the recent past, that i would occasionally hit ALT-Enter and watch the frames jump from 30s/60s to 120 for a second and drop right back down. Now they stay high! Again, I think I can be very satisfied with the FPS side of things,, I just want to tweak for smoothness, and last night was very satisfying to start with, There is some room to work it seems, but if I cant improve on what I have already established, I will still be very satisfied with the improvement.

 

[Lange_666]

If you have full screen checked when entering DCS and hit ALT-Enter, you switch from full screen to windowed mode (which looks as full screen if your DCS res match your monitor res).

[Fakum]

I believe you, I just wanted to be clear that it is apparent that having Full Screen checked or unchecked had no impact in my ability to run at a solid 120FPS. I got the impression from glide that he may have been thinking that it did, along with Vsync? I may have misinterpreted that as well,,, just wanted to clarify that neither made a difference. Thanks

 

 

[Fakum]

TIME OUT! Boy, did I mess up! Apologies in advance. I have been using my monitors FPS Counter for reference instead of DCS FPS Counter, I have just used DCS FPS and it differs from Monitor FPS Counter? Running both at the same, they BOTH show frame rates of about 32 in Instant Action, then when I hit ALT-ENT,,, DCS FPS stays at 32ish, but monitor shows 120. I really messed myself up with that! I thought I hit the jackpot. Sorry for unintentionally mis-leading. I have to drop back and punt again.

[Lange_666]

That is what happens when you have full screen checked and press ALT-Enter. You then put DCS in windowed mode, your FPS in DCS stays the same but your monitors FPS counter will show the FPS value what runs behind the DCS window, in a lot of cases that's just Windows.

[Glide]

@FakumThat's even lower than my performance. 

 

My point about vsync and alt+enter is that if you enable vsync in DCS it works both windows and full screen.  If you enable vsync or gsync in NCP, it only works in fullscreen mode.  Alt+enter toggles fullscreen mode.  This makes perfect sense because the card can't know which app to sync with in windowed mode.  This is why our fps goes up and down with Alt+enter. 

 

Let me know when you test vsync/gsync off completely.

[Hiob]

Alright - I fiddled a bit with MSAA and SSAA and came to the conclusion, that I will stay with my setting MSAA 2x AND SSAA 1,5x.

Turns out, that the statement from someone earlier, that they don't go together (or it doesn't make sense) was also false.

 

I highly recommend to everyone to try out for yourself.

VERY good in-depth analysis on this matter in this Video (don't miss the attached google-doc!):

 

[Fakum]

Thanks, i will let you know when I get al the marbles back in my head and dive back in,,, vsync/gsync cycling LOL,, Wheres the Tylenol!

Thanks Hiob,,,, That is worth reviewing as well apparently

[Hiob]

On the matter of FPS-perception:

 

https://www.testufo.com/

 

 

On 2/24/2021 at 5:26 PM, glide said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_blur

 

You don't understand your own sources...