I can't kill spitfire AI 1V1 same conditions (same speed, aspect, altitude velocity)

[MrWolf]

Mustang it's quite easy for me, just engage a vertical fight and eventualy you win. For reversing a mustang, same, vertical Scissors.

 

On the other hand, I cannot do shit against a spit, well maybe eject once identified, to save time of my life. 

 

"Zoom and boom" classic, I try it we have same energy at start, I force AI into a dive because he will mostly waste energy turning like crazy, okay he does that. Then I regain altitude, I have more energy, now I can do 2 things go "zoom" which ends on him turning at who nows g's onto my tail and there he stays until I die. Other option, climb 500km/h, until getting separation 1000ft, go in, spitfire turns with the power of a su27 cobra onto my tail, stays there until dead.

 

Well then I can try also vertical, which ends with spitfire on my tail and dead.

 

Of course I try turning with him if I want to die quickly.

 

I just don't get that spitfire can turn 180 degrees instantaneously and then match my climb without stalling?? Just stupid plane. 

 

I saw a spitfire climb at 150km/h aiming like it had a gunner.

 

I seen videos Dora vs spitfire with Dora wining, but all those videos where in situations where the energy on planes wasn't the same. Typically Dora sneaking onto a spitfire.

 

I want advice for 1v1 SAME CONDITIONS, but maybe its imposible, maybe I just have to run when I see a spit.

[grafspee]

Spitfire was very good plane.

Second thing AI planes fly perfect in DCS

AI at high difficulty will shoot very accurate from very far

AI is just too perfect.

Human flown planes are much easier target.

[LeCuvier]

I tried Dora vs AI Spit and it's pretty much hopeless. Graf Spee explains why.

The only way I could kill it (AI at Rookie level) in chicken game mode: Meet the Spit head-on, keep it in the crosshair and fire as soon as it's close enough.

If you didn't get him, keep flying straight and fast till you are far enough. Then turn around and try again, etc. till you got him.

Bf-109K vs AI Spit works better for me. At Rookie level it's relatively easy. At Trained level the Spit defies the laws of physics, and the AI never blacks out. It climbs like a rocket and turns like a chopper. You need to use your engine power (max!) to gain altitude and distance. Attack from way above. Then you can turn diving which nullifies the Spits turning advantage without you blacking out. Once you are behind her stay fast but don't overshoot, until you are in a good firing position. Once you are behind she cannot escape you. It will take practice to do it!

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by LeCuvier

[MrWolf]

4 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

I tried Dora vs AI Spit and it's pretty much hopeless. Graf Spee explains why.

The only way I could kill it (AI at Rookie level) in chicken game mode: Meet the Spit head-on, keep it in the crosshair and fire as soon as it's close enough.

If you didn't get him, keep flying straight and fast till you are far enough. Then turn around and try again, etc. till you got him.

Bf-109K vs AI Spit works better for me. At Rookie level it's relatively easy. At Trained level the Spit defies the laws of physics, and the AI never blacks out. It climbs like a rocket and turns like a chopper. You need to use your engine power (max!) to gain altitude and distance. Attack from way above. Then you can turn diving which nullifies the Spits turning advantage without you blacking out. Once you are behind her stay fast but don't overshoot, until you are in a good firing position. Once you are behind she cannot escape you. It will take practice to do it!

 

 

New AI spit thing, I saw it climbing 70-80 km/h vertical and it didn't STALL he put his nose down and flyed straight after that. Is this just AI or spitfire is GOD's plane? It's like I was fighting vs a hornet with FCS and afterburner. If spitfires are like this in real life I don't understand why it took so long to win Germany on WWII

[razo+r]

It's just AI and the usage of the SFM as well as the lack of restrictions that a human suffers.

[StevanJ]

14 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Mustang it's quite easy for me, just engage a vertical fight and eventualy you win. For reversing a mustang, same, vertical Scissors.

 

On the other hand, I cannot do shit against a spit, well maybe eject once identified, to save time of my life. 

 

"Zoom and boom" classic, I try it we have same energy at start, I force AI into a dive because he will mostly waste energy turning like crazy, okay he does that. Then I regain altitude, I have more energy, now I can do 2 things go "zoom" which ends on him turning at who nows g's onto my tail and there he stays until I die. Other option, climb 500km/h, until getting separation 1000ft, go in, spitfire turns with the power of a su27 cobra onto my tail, stays there until dead.

 

Well then I can try also vertical, which ends with spitfire on my tail and dead.

 

Of course I try turning with him if I want to die quickly.

 

I just don't get that spitfire can turn 180 degrees instantaneously and then match my climb without stalling?? Just stupid plane. 

 

I saw a spitfire climb at 150km/h aiming like it had a gunner.

 

I seen videos Dora vs spitfire with Dora wining, but all those videos where in situations where the energy on planes wasn't the same. Typically Dora sneaking onto a spitfire.

 

I want advice for 1v1 SAME CONDITIONS, but maybe its imposible, maybe I just have to run when I see a spit.

Are you turning on your Supercharger? The 190D is 100KPH faster, Just get some distance, then turn into him and go guns blazing low.

[razo+r]

4 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Are you turning on your Supercharger? The 190D is 100KPH faster, Just get some distance, then turn into him and go guns blazing low.

Supercharger is automatic, there is no switch for it. 

[StevanJ]

20 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Supercharger is automatic, there is no switch for it. 

In the Dora? Isnt it to the right of the Throttle? A big black switch?

[razo+r]

That's for the MW-50 injection.

 

The german warbirds (most if not all of them) do not have supercharger switches like the allied warbirds have.

Edited April 22, 2021 by razo+r

[StevanJ]

Just now, razo+r said:

That's for the MW-50 injection.

 

The german warbirds (most if not all of them) do not have supercharger switches like the allied warbirds have.

 

You learn something new every day. Ive been calling that 'the super charger' from day 3.. 
Serves me right for doing no training missions. Thanks Man.
 

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, StevanJ said:

Are you turning on your Supercharger? The 190D is 100KPH faster, Just get some distance, then turn into him and go guns blazing low.

Yeah I do that, it's what I said I get distance (most I can do is 50km/h difference at 5m/s climb), I turn, face on, he cobras, he is behind me he engages afterburner(or whatever this mthfkr plane has which makes him regain velocity at 150-100 km/h level flight without stalling with those big winga) and ends with a velocity 20km/h lower but behind in the next turn (even waiting to try to separate from him) he gets behind CLOSE. Sometimes at this moment if I'm not already dead I try to force a vertical scissors, but its impossible, spit can fly super slow 30km/h without stalling and rolling good too so it stays behind me no matter what.

[StevanJ]

4 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Yeah I do that, it's what I said I get distance (most I can do is 50km/h difference at 5m/s climb), I turn, face on, he cobras, he is behind me he engages afterburner(or whatever this mthfkr plane has which makes him regain velocity at 150-100 km/h level flight without stalling with those big winga) and ends with a velocity 20km/h lower but behind in the next turn (even waiting to try to separate from him) he gets behind CLOSE. Sometimes at this moment if I'm not already dead I try to force a vertical scissors, but its impossible, spit can fly super slow 30km/h without stalling and rolling good too so it stays behind me no matter what.

If you can record it, and prove he's flying at the wrong speed in a track, you can report it as a bug.
Try doing it again, and showing us his stats in a replay using F2 view on him.

Youll also get some help from others on here who have better experience with the AI, I only play online, and the Dora is the 'air-king' for speed.

[amazingme]

Here's how it should look against that puppy, freshly made:

https://youtu.be/Or-BI51RH28

[StevanJ]

2 hours ago, amazingme said:

Here's how it should look against that puppy, freshly made:

https://youtu.be/Or-BI51RH28

Nice work!!
Normandy.. Not so much anymore..

[MrWolf]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:05 PM, amazingme said:

Here's how it should look against that puppy, freshly made:

https://youtu.be/Or-BI51RH28

 

 

WOW amazing, so i can be done, thank you soo much now i have confidence in trying vertical fights until i master this fight, i didnt try this type of engagement because i thought it was useless, but i was wrong, thank you.

 

Also what are you DCS and gpu settings, because with my settings is very dificult to spot planes. It maybe the aliasing because planes mimetize with the ground or sky becoming invisible.

 

I play at 2k, a spotting/high visbility focused settings would be much apreciated if you share it with me

 

Thanks a lot

[MrWolf]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:05 PM, StevanJ said:

If you can record it, and prove he's flying at the wrong speed in a track, you can report it as a bug.
Try doing it again, and showing us his stats in a replay using F2 view on him.

Youll also get some help from others on here who have better experience with the AI, I only play online, and the Dora is the 'air-king' for speed.

Since amazingame posted a dogfight with him wining vs spit, i think the problem is solved. Now i just have to get better.

[amazingme]

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Since amazingame posted a dogfight with him wining vs spit, i think the problem is solved. Now i just have to get better.

AI can be very easily tricked.. I can make it kiss the ground if I want to.. Against human it's a different story though, but practice make perfection. So all you have to do is.. practice and get better at it. S!

[sam777777]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:35 AM, MrWolf said:

Since amazingame posted a dogfight with him wining vs spit, i think the problem is solved. Now i just have to get better.

 

In this case it was an (accidental?) exploit of the AI ground avoidance. This causes the spit to turn away and "go dumb" until it is away from the scary, scary ground.

Without using the ground, the point still stands. And I think the real point is that the cheating AI issue is especially severe on the Spitfire (and Mig15). They don't lose energy as they should, and can climb/fight at crazy AoA's. 

If anybody finds a way to exploit the AI on the Spit it'd be good to know. I don't even have the Dora, and while there is a way to defeat the Spit in the 109K4 it isn't very realistic. (High speed into very slight spiral climb, don't tighten until the spit is already stalling)
 

[grafspee]

8 hours ago, sam777777 said:

 

I They don't lose energy as they should, and can climb/fight at crazy AoA's. 

Let me clarify couple things,

First Spitfire can turn very sharp not because it can reach crazy AoA. Stall AoA is not much different then in other ww2 planes.

What makes Spitfire great at turning is opposite what you just said, Spitfire require a lot lower AoA to pull 4g, then other planes like P-51 Fw190 or BF-109, this allow Spitfire pilot to pull tighter turns w/o stalling.

Spitfire design was focused to create plane with the lowest induced drag possible, and it was like that, but not w/o price to pay, parastatic drag was quite high, which limited Spitfire top speed.

Another positive thing about this large wings is climb rate, with throttle full on, you are looking at 5k ft/min climb easy.

Low AoA = a lot less energy bleed in turns.

Spitfire pulls 4g at 300mph it slides through air like a hot knife through butter

Dora pulls 4g at 300mph it digs like a plow in to the soil

So far i noticed that AI sucks at high alt, try fighting Spitfire at 30k should be easy win if you can manage long fight.

Edited June 24, 2021 by grafspee

[Mogster]

Imagine the reaction when the Spit XIV arrives…

[amazingme]

13 hours ago, sam777777 said:

 

In this case it was an (accidental?) exploit of the AI ground avoidance. This causes the spit to turn away and "go dumb" until it is away from the scary, scary ground.

Without using the ground, the point still stands. And I think the real point is that the cheating AI issue is especially severe on the Spitfire (and Mig15). They don't lose energy as they should, and can climb/fight at crazy AoA's. 

If anybody finds a way to exploit the AI on the Spit it'd be good to know. I don't even have the Dora, and while there is a way to defeat the Spit in the 109K4 it isn't very realistic. (High speed into very slight spiral climb, don't tighten until the spit is already stalling)
 

 

No, not quite.. watch this video I've just made:

 

https://youtu.be/0KHYBhEeapk

Edited June 24, 2021 by amazingme

[konyanyachiwa]

Just for your information.

 

I won't give up till the end.

 

 

 

Tracks

DCS FW190 D-9 VS Spitfire - AI Ace -.trk

 

Tacview

DCS FW190 D-9 VS Spitfire - AI Ace -.acmi

[amazingme]

 Good kill! But.. that's not the proper way to fight in the Dora. Hint #1: it's an energy fighter, act accordingly! Hint #2: always compare your plane's flight envelope to your enemy's. Soon you'll know what maneuver will get you the kill or get you killed. S!