Air Refueling Cheat

[September]

I play DCS with a gamepad while using the mouse to look around and keyboard to control certain functions. This works really great for me and I have no want for a joystick or head tracking or anything like that, BUT the one thing that is really difficult or near impossible is AAR. I can manage it in modules that use the basket and probe, but with the boom no way. Even with the probe and drogue it's not pretty and I end up all over the place and disconnecting at least once. It is a frustration that I would just like to avoid entirely if possible.

 

I'm curious to what other people think of this?

[MAXsenna]

You could search the forum, and you'll find that it's brought up from time to time, and ED have said no to this.
People tend to have VERY strong opinions about this, one way or another.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

The control needed for AAR really demands a joystick. A gamepad with little thumb sticks just can’t give you the precision that’s required. If you don’t want a joystick then the alternative is to fly shorter missions or select unlimited fuel. 

[September]

3 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

You could search the forum, and you'll find that it's brought up from time to time, and ED have said no to this.
People tend to have VERY strong opinions about this, one way or another.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

In my opinion I feel it's no worse than the auto-start cheat we have. I think auto-start is actually more "cheatier" seeing as starting up the plane is fundamental for actually being able to fly it.

[SharpeXB]

This question has already been asked and answered by ED. They have no plans to add “Easy AAR”

 

[MAXsenna]

In my opinion I feel it's no worse than the auto-start cheat we have. I think auto-start is actually more "cheatier" seeing as starting up the plane is fundamental for actually being able to fly it.

You asked a specific question, and I gave you a hint on how to find the answer. I didn't give my opinion, I have yet to successfully do AAR, but it's really not on my mind. Have never done any autostart, as I want full control, but I do understand those who use it to save time or whatever.
And like both me and Sharp wrote, ED has stated they won't add this, so further discussion is futile in my opinion no matter what I think about this feature. I couldn't care less and probably wouldn't ever use it.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Exorcet]

I'm a bit curious that so many people find the drogue easier than the boom, but on the subject of easy refueling ED hasn't implemented it in the game yet. However there is a bug where jumping (R alt + J) between your plane and your wingmen will add fuel to the planes. I don't think it works for all modules, but you could try it as a work around until either it's removed or easy AAR is added.

[MAXsenna]

I'm a bit curious that so many people find the drogue easier than the boom, but on the subject of easy refueling ED hasn't implemented it in the game yet. However there is a bug where jumping (R alt + J) between your plane and your wingmen will add fuel to the planes. I don't think it works for all modules, but you could try it as a work around until either it's removed or easy AAR is added.

That I've never tried!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Tank50us]

The best way for it to be handled would be a display that pops up to give the pilot direction on how to get into the correct position for refueling. This could be something that's optional, and could be turned off if a player wants, but otherwise it's an aid, and not something automatic of 'easy'.

[Furiz]

7 hours ago, September said:

I play DCS with a gamepad while using the mouse to look around and keyboard to control certain functions. This works really great for me and I have no want for a joystick or head tracking or anything like that, BUT the one thing that is really difficult or near impossible is AAR. I can manage it in modules that use the basket and probe, but with the boom no way. Even with the probe and drogue it's not pretty and I end up all over the place and disconnecting at least once. It is a frustration that I would just like to avoid entirely if possible.

 

I'm curious to what other people think of this?

 

So basically you want ED to add refueling cheat because you play on a gamepad? I think you will need a HOTAS, sry to be this harsh on you

[September]

14 minutes ago, Furiz said:

 

So basically you want ED to add refueling cheat because you play on a gamepad? I think you will need a HOTAS, sry to be this harsh on you

It's not just me but people who have a crappier hotas that isn't as precise

[Furiz]

2 minutes ago, September said:

It's not just me but people who have a crappier hotas that isn't as precise

 

I have it, the TM 16000 Throttle, pretty crap tbh, you cant adjust your throttle precisely and every single axis on it is jerking, after 8 or 9 months of use (no I'm not a kid tossing it around), I had the Stick too but I bought F-16 stick and Magnetic Base, waiting on Winwing to release F-16 throttle so Ill change that terrible throttle. I wont ask from ED to make cheats for me cause I don't want a HOTAS.

 

I've managed to do the AAR even with TM 16000 Stick and Throttle, so it is doable it just takes practice, haven't even tried flying with gamepad cause I know gamepad is really not good for flying a realistic sim, I started flying with some old stick and no throttle, then I upgraded.

 

So don't feel bad about upgrading, change is good!

[Tank50us]

I'm gonna side with the Gamepad owner here, because there's people that play with Keyboard and Mouse. So, anything that could be integrated into the game that can *help* the player with most of the hard things by giving them visual indications of what they need to do. Not take control of the aircraft obviously, but give some visual indicators.

[Черный Дракул]

1 hour ago, Furiz said:

So basically you want ED to add refueling cheat because you play on a gamepad? I think you will need a HOTAS, sry to be this harsh on you

This is not harsh, just unreasonable and without any grounds to base itself on. 

As of now, the only thing that can help TS is infinite fuel option, but it would be quite decent if ED has implemented at least some refuelling aids. For example, DFUA lights on tankers are almost invisible in the current engine, while being absolutely crucial to boom-type refuelling. There's no reason not to add an inteface like Mi-8 autopilot HUD, but for AAR operation. Different axis sensitivity in AAR and normal flight modes are also an option. Etc. 

[Dragon1-1]

43 minutes ago, Черный Дракул said:

For example, DFUA lights on tankers are almost invisible in the current engine, while being absolutely crucial to boom-type refuelling.

They aren't absolutely crucial, and in fact, people on both sides of the boom (boomers and pilots) had said that on tankers that we have, the light are usually too dim to see. This annoys a lot of people IRL, too. At night, they're fine, during the day, just look at the tanker.

[Furiz]

4 hours ago, Черный Дракул said:

There's no reason not to add an inteface like Mi-8 autopilot HUD, but for AAR operation. Different axis sensitivity in AAR and normal flight modes are also an option. Etc. 

 

There is one crucial reason, it would be unrealistic.

[cfrag]

17 minutes ago, Furiz said:

 

There is one crucial reason, it would be unrealistic.

 

Yeah, like being immortal, 3 minute field repairs, being allowed to fly fighter jets without having 400+ successful landings in a trainer, etc. 'Unrealistic' is a mere straw man argument. That being said, this topic has been rehashed ad nauseum and ED's current stance on this is known. Aaaaand I should have shut up a minute ago

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by cfrag

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Tank50us said:

I'm gonna side with the Gamepad owner here, because there's people that play with Keyboard and Mouse.

You have to admit, these are fully inadequate controls for a flight sim like this. Especially for something as demanding as AAR. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by SharpeXB

[Exorcet]

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

They aren't absolutely crucial, and in fact, people on both sides of the boom (boomers and pilots) had said that on tankers that we have, the light are usually too dim to see. This annoys a lot of people IRL, too. At night, they're fine, during the day, just look at the tanker.

I'd argue their importance might go up relative to real life depending on one's sim setup. I only have a hatswitch to look around and it's a bit of pain for me to change view while refueling. The lights tend to be in a good spot across many aircraft, I just wish I could see them better.

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

'Unrealistic' is a mere straw man argument.

You're the one building a strawman (and engaging in whataboutism while at it). Realism is a sensible thing to expect in a simulation. While you are trying to counter it with by implying proponents of realism hold a plainly ridiculous position. This is the actual definition of a strawman. 

 

There are some things that differ from reality, by the nature of it being a simulation. However, a simulation generally concerns itself with limits imposed by physics. Limits imposed by people are out of scope unless there are some other people (like a mission designer) interested in enforcing them.

 

Lack of magic AAR is a physical limit, since there's no such thing IRL. If we were simulating people-imposed limits, you wouldn't even be allowed near the tanker without adequate formation practice.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Dragon1-1

[Furiz]

This whole thread comes down to OP using bad controller to fly planes and demanding cheat. It's like playing first person shooter with keyboard only and asking for aim assist while the mouse+keyboard option is right there in front of you.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Furiz

[audax]

Many campaigns are implementing workarounds for AAR, so I guess it would be nice to have proper workarounds and therefore easy-AAR implemented directly in the core game.

[Черный Дракул]

5 hours ago, Furiz said:

 

There is one crucial reason, it would be unrealistic.

On the contrary, the full swing of normal control stick far exceeds the minijoystick one -- so it's only natural to adopt an adaptive sensitivity and range for specific situations, where input:response would be closer to 1:1. Fingertip flying and all that stuff real pilots tend to mention, you know? 

As for the HUD improvements, remember that we are still using monitors which, depending on the FoV, either display what a human pilot would see or how they would see it -- not both at the same time. Even visually, we are severely gimped -- let alone not having many other ques a pilot would receive. So, again, it's quite natural to display aids for people to better understand their situation. This is already implemented, BTW -- you can see autopilot, controls positions, crew assignments and all that in specific aircraft. Having DFUA visual aid is not different in any way. If these are too distracting for someone, I presume these can be turned off in Options or via keyboard shortcut. 

And for training purposes I would add draggable 3D envelope to refuelling aircraft, like training gates in some landing missions, so that people would understand AAR better. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

the light are usually too dim to see

I presume they would dismount these if they served no purpose, as you seem to assume. But that is of no consequence anyway, since one can always draw a visual aid that's hardly readable, too 

 

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Lack of magic AAR is a physical limit, since there's no such thing IRL

I deem this a weak argument since we really do have things in the game that defy this limit, like simplified controls for MiG-21 engine or SA342 easier controls and engine breakability, let alone global settings like simplified flight dynamics and avionics. Having an option for simplified AAR will not diminish anything additional here. 

[Furiz]

9 minutes ago, Черный Дракул said:

On the contrary, the full swing of normal control stick far exceeds the minijoystick one -- so it's only natural to adopt an adaptive sensitivity and range for specific situations, where input:response would be closer to 1:1. Fingertip flying and all that stuff real pilots tend to mention, you know? 

As for the HUD improvements, remember that we are still using monitors which, depending on the FoV, either display what a human pilot would see or how they would see it -- not both at the same time. Even visually, we are severely gimped -- let alone not having many other ques a pilot would receive. So, again, it's quite natural to display aids for people to better understand their situation. This is already implemented, BTW -- you can see autopilot, controls positions, crew assignments and all that in specific aircraft. Having DFUA visual aid is not different in any way. If these are too distracting for someone, I presume these can be turned off in Options or via keyboard shortcut. 

And for training purposes I would add draggable 3D envelope to refuelling aircraft, like training gates in some landing missions, so that people would understand AAR better.

 

And how is that changing the fact that he is using a gamepad to fly a plane simulator and asking for a cheat for AAR, he can use HOTAS but he is using a gamepad, the whole reason for his post is that he is using a gamepad and he can't AAR with it.

It is like driving a car at night with a welding mask on and then asking the city to install better lighting cause you cant see that damn road.

 

12 minutes ago, Черный Дракул said:

I presume they would dismount these if they served no purpose, as you seem to assume. But that is of no consequence anyway, since one can always draw a visual aid that's hardly readable, too 

 

 

What do you mean they serve no purpose? they do serve their purpose at night, during daytime as he already explained they use the tanker for reference.

 

20 minutes ago, Черный Дракул said:

I deem this a weak argument since we really do have things in the game that defy this limit, like simplified controls for MiG-21 engine or SA342 easier controls and engine breakability, let alone global settings like simplified flight dynamics and avionics. Having an option for simplified AAR will not diminish anything additional here. 

 

Why is this a weak argument? There is no such thing is real world, and we are trying to simulate a real jet. Ofc not everything can be perfect.

[Dragon1-1]

28 minutes ago, Черный Дракул said:

I presume they would dismount these if they served no purpose, as you seem to assume.

They do serve a purpose, namely aiding AAR positioning at night. It might be a surprising discovery to you, but a light that's dim during the day can be perfectly visible during the night. This is exactly the case in DCS, too. As it happens, during the night it's much harder to look at the tanker due to night being, you know, dark. The lights work fine then.