Richard Dastardly Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, admiki said: I am. Still there is up-down oscilation at about 120 kph in level flight. I don't know how it is in real life, but I would expect attack helicopter to be more nimble than transport heli. It's an assault helicopter more than an outright attack helicopter - I'm not sure there's any other equivalents to be honest, and as a concept it obviously didn't really work because we ended up with the Mi-28. It's definitely faster than the Hip, at least, and from some very limited time in it seems to change direction a little easer. I suspect the wings do some very odd things at times. What's the rough stall speed of the wings? given they're sitting in the downwash it's probably not an easy question to answer. Edited August 29, 2021 by Richard Dastardly Most Wanted: the angry Naval Lynx | Seafire | Buccaneer | Hawker Hunter | Hawker Tempest/Sea Fury | Su-17/22 | rough strip rearming / construction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torun Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 I find that the Yaw stab channel is currently unstable, so it's a good thing I run foot pedals. The pitch does indeed slip into a Rocking Horse effect at low speeds, it's even induced by using the trim hat sometimes. But also, I sometimes get a really wierd phenomenon where placing my cyclic at a very specific fore deflection causes it to snap towards half aft. It only occurs when Pitch stab is on. It never occurs on any other aircraft. In Axis Tune settings, the axis doesn't snap like this either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 (edited) Am 16.8.2021 um 15:38 schrieb Hummingbird: In addition to this I stumbled upon a peculiar characteristic when attempting to fly sideways, with the heli only wanting to weathervane nose forward when flying sideways to the left, whilst to the right it wants to go tail forward. This!!! Exactly this is my biggest problem with the hind ! Edited December 15, 2021 by Schlomo1933 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Schlomo1933 said: This!!! Exactly this is my biggest problem with the hind ! Not sure, but when I think about it it might actually be correct behavior for the Hind. For the life of me I can't see why the devs would not correct this behavior if it isn't correct behavior. Edited December 15, 2021 by Lurker 1 Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2 Joystick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Need to check more, but it is possible that by flying to the right you are stalling tailrotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Am 15.12.2021 um 19:30 schrieb admiki: Need to check more, but it is possible that by flying to the right you are stalling tailrotor. that must be an incredible big issue on the real helicopter . If u watch some mi-24 airshow videos u never see such behavior. and the fly much faster sideways as it is possible in DCS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcedVenom Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 7/2/2021 at 1:06 AM, Lurker said: Make sure your AP Channels are on. Especially the YAW channel. I don't know why but flying without the yaw channel engaged will change how the helicopter behaves in pitch and make it twitchy. Which is kind of strange. To me this is currently the most difficult helicopter to fly, although it is much easier to land compared to the Mi8. It is also a bit more twitchy in forward flight during course changes, which is again kind of weird, I would expect it to be more stable than the HIP. I know that PilotMi8 was a HIP pilot, which is why I still believe that the Mi8 has the most accurate flight model of all the choppers in the game. I think that there is something off with how the AP channels work and interact with each other and the helicopter trim in the Hind. But I can't base it off anything but a subjective opinion, and the comparison I keep making with the Mi8. It does make some sense as this is a completely different airframe, but on the other hand I still think that there is something strange going on with the FM, or rather the AP channels\trim. I would argue the Mi-8 is much easier to land than the Mi-24 due to the rotor diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick33 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 59 minutes ago, Schlomo1933 said: that must be an incredible big issue on the real helicopter . If u watch some mi-24 airshow videos u never see such behavior. and the fly much faster sideways as it is possible in DCS. Flying with a light load seems much easier. I downloaded an agility test mission which included the Mi-24 and can throw it around the course, fly inside hangars and so on. Fully loaded for a mission and I need a lot more care and can run out of right tail rotor if I mess up! AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, IcedVenom said: I would argue the Mi-8 is much easier to land than the Mi-24 due to the rotor diameter. What effect does that have? I’m sure it has an effect but curious exactly what it is. The Mi-8 has larger rotor diameter, but Mi-24 has thicker chord, enough that both helicopters have identical rotor area, and the Mi-24 has a higher speed gearbox to make up for less tip speed Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Baldrick33: Flying with a light load seems much easier. I downloaded an agility test mission which included the Mi-24 and can throw it around the course, fly inside hangars and so on. Fully loaded for a mission and I need a lot more care and can run out of right tail rotor if I mess up! I can do this also , but when u are strafing to the right , u have also to push the right pedal instead the left one. otherwise the hind turn his tail to the wind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Schlomo1933 said: I can do this also , but when u are strafing to the right , u have also to push the right pedal instead the left one. otherwise the hind turn his tail to the wind Strafing to the right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 hours ago, admiki said: Strafing to the right? I think he's talking about what I noted earlier: Quote In addition to this I stumbled upon a peculiar characteristic when attempting to fly sideways, with the heli only wanting to weathervane nose forward when flying sideways to the left, whilst to the right it wants to go tail forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcedVenom Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 22 hours ago, AeriaGloria said: What effect does that have? I’m sure it has an effect but curious exactly what it is. The Mi-8 has larger rotor diameter, but Mi-24 has thicker chord, enough that both helicopters have identical rotor area, and the Mi-24 has a higher speed gearbox to make up for less tip speed Well, judging by how Mi-24 is armored and much heavier than Mi-8, that in combination with a smaller diameter you need a higher rotor angle degree to get into a hover of around 10, as opposed to the Mi-8 which is around 8. I'm not an expert in Aeronautics, I'm an Economist, but maybe you're right that they have the same overall surface area, but I remain skeptical. I'm not sure if having a thicker chord is an effective substitute or if the Mi-24 is just heavier or a little bit of both, but I find it more difficult and requiring much more energy to transfer into a hover from a straight flight than the Mi-8. Mi-24's wings seem to give it more lift in a straight however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 23 hours ago, AeriaGloria said: What effect does that have? I’m sure it has an effect but curious exactly what it is. The Mi-8 has larger rotor diameter, but Mi-24 has thicker chord, enough that both helicopters have identical rotor area, and the Mi-24 has a higher speed gearbox to make up for less tip speed Maybe because you "hit" ground effect(~1/2 rotor diameter) earlier in the Mi-8? Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1, F-4E Phantom II System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, unknown said: Maybe because you "hit" ground effect(~1/2 rotor diameter) earlier in the Mi-8? No I mean I’ve literally read sources that state “Mi-24 has increased blade chord in order to equal same rotor area as Mi-8 despite its longer rotor span.” I don’t remember the source, it was a while ago, but we can verify this with the in game LUA files. Mi-8 Rotor diameter: 21.33m blade chord: .52m blade area: 4.63m squared Mi-24 rotor diameter: 17.3m Blade chord: .58m blade area: 3.34m squared So it’s not the same, I’m sure that source over exaggerates, but with a 18% smaller diameter the chord is increased by 12%, so it more then splits the difference if they had just decreased diameter but not changed chord. It doesn’t equal the Mi-8 blade area so I stand corrected on that, but the difference is smaller then the difference in rotor diameter makes it seem Combine with the fact that the gearbox in the Mi-24 spins the rotor 20% faster, the difference in lift becomes even smaller Edited February 1, 2022 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 You can't compare it by blade area. You need to take rotor disc area for comparison. Mi-8 disc is 356 m2 and Mi-24 disc is 235,1 m2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Am 30.1.2022 um 21:56 schrieb admiki: Strafing to the right? fast hovering to the right. if u hover to the left the chopper will turn his front into the flight direcetion (thats correct). but if u hover to the right, the choppper will turn his tail into flight direction (absolutly wrong - no helicopter will do this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Schlomo1933 said: fast hovering to the right. if u hover to the left the chopper will turn his front into the flight direcetion (thats correct). but if u hover to the right, the choppper will turn his tail into flight direction (absolutly wrong - no helicopter will do this) Just checking as I haven't flown the Hind in quite a while. Is this still the behavior that the module currently exhibits? Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2 Joystick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 vor 5 Minuten schrieb Lurker: Just checking as I haven't flown the Hind in quite a while. Is this still the behavior that the module currently exhibits? i think so... havent also flown the hind since 2 patches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, admiki said: You can't compare it by blade area. You need to take rotor disc area for comparison. Mi-8 disc is 356 m2 and Mi-24 disc is 235,1 m2. I’m sure that makes a big difference for things like control leverage, but we’re talking about the lifting area here. How much lifting surface is available. If blade area didn’t matter, everyone would use minuscule or the same blade chord to maximize efficiency with high aspect ratios. Increasing blade chord will absolutely increase the total lift created by the rotor even if it’s effect is slightly differently then a larger span/disk. Chord is one of the main variables in calculating the lift of the wing, and these rotors are wings The increased span helos a lot o think in sling loading or cargo lifting, it increases the amount of leverage there is to balance a wide range loads of center of gravities. But I’ll stand by that increasing chord increases lift the same it does on any wing, and that while rotor disk is a good measure of certain things rotor blade area is a good measure of other things, telling actually how much lifting surface there is in the rotor disk and how loaded that area actually is with the weight of the helicopter. Just like how the Hind rotor has 20% higher RPM, if you looked at only rotor disk area I think you would not get the fullest picture of the difference in rotor lift between the two helicopters The original statement I responded to was that the Mi-8 was easier to land then Mi-24 becuase of the rotor diameter, and I asked what is the exact effect that has becuase I’ve always been curious other then things live leverage/inertia. I assumed they meant that becuase of larger rotor disk= higher lift, and I wanted to point out that while it may have higher lift the rotor disk area isn’t the only number to look at for that information, as the blades of the Mi-24 themselves have higher chord and RPM Edited February 1, 2022 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee1hy Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Turn OFF all APs are better flying this aircraft creator of ED's official F-16C liveries (WP,OS, 132nd, 152nd, 174th) AH-64D livery contest winner kim_123456#3214 My user files https://shorturl.at/cdKV5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I don't want to hover without pitch and roll AP. I can, but I don't want to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, admiki said: I don't want to hover without pitch and roll AP. I can, but I don't want to Agree. Some things are smoother, and a lot of things aren’t you can feel the inertia alot more Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now