AV-8B NA and the AGM-65 Maverick: Updated Procedures and Limitations

[equinox137]

so basically in trying to read through all this, i've come to the conclusion that the targeting pod is of absolutely no use in the Harrier right now.  And because of that, you can not use Mav-Es, or at least self-lase, with the Harrier at this point.  Is that correct?

Edited September 8, 2021 by equinox137

[Thanatos31]

4 hours ago, equinox137 said:

so basically in trying to read through all this, i've come to the conclusion that the targeting pod is of absolutely no use in the Harrier right now.  And because of that, you can not use Mav-Es, or at least self-lase, with the Harrier at this point.  Is that correct?

 

nope, not as dramatic as you make it appear.

it just means you need to spend a few minutes / hours and learning the new flow of how to target with the new E Mav...you can still self lase, just need to incorporate a few different steps. 

[Krez]

10 hours ago, equinox137 said:

so basically in trying to read through all this, i've come to the conclusion that the targeting pod is of absolutely no use in the Harrier right now.  And because of that, you can not use Mav-Es, or at least self-lase, with the Harrier at this point.  Is that correct?

 

The TPOD works just fine and is plenty useful.
MAV-E is buddy lase only, like it should be.
MAV-E2/L is self or buddy lase.

If you have not been keeping up with the changes, it will be like learning it all over again.
Procedures and limitations are accurately represented.

[Rakamora]

Why is mav getting deselected when I go in and out of tpod mode(sss depress) bug or correct as is?

Edited September 9, 2021 by Rakamora

[Thanatos31]

19 hours ago, Rakamora said:

Why is mav getting deselected when I go in and out of tpod mode(sss depress) bug or correct as is?

 

The harrier can only display one "video" feed from a MAV. The TPOD is also a "MAV" for the onboard computer. Hence - its either TPOD feed or MAV feed. 
Correct. 

[Vakarian]

10 minutes ago, Thanatos31 said:

The harrier can only display one "video" feed from a MAV. The TPOD is also a "MAV" for the onboard computer. Hence - its either TPOD feed or MAV feed. 
Correct. 

That's not what he asked.

 

You box MAV (still caged) on STRS or EHSD page and you go to find target using TPOD. When you do SS Depress to switch between INS and TPOD designation mode, IRMV gets unboxed so you can't uncage it as soon as you've found the target because you need to go and select MAV first

[Thanatos31]

ah, thanks !

[HR-Crumble]

So how come the 65E self lase was removed?

Is it specific to Harrier software as to why because IRL you can self lase from a tpod on the E.

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[Kev2go]

On 9/8/2021 at 11:36 AM, Krez said:

The TPOD works just fine and is plenty useful.
MAV-E is buddy lase only, like it should be.
MAV-E2/L is self or buddy lase.

If you have not been keeping up with the changes, it will be like learning it all over again.
Procedures and limitations are accurately represented.

 

23 minutes ago, HR-Crumble said:

So how come the 65E self lase was removed?

Is it specific to Harrier software as to why because IRL you can self lase from a tpod on the E.

Sent from my IN2013 using Tapatalk
 

 

I mean Zeus Does cite a newer documentation..... but the way it seems So with newer software suites in like post 2011? harriers? they dumbed down the features and handicapped things for pilots? 

 

dunno why other aircraft dont have these same limitations

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, HR-Crumble said:

Is it specific to Harrier software as to why because IRL you can self lase from a tpod on the E.

AFAIK the AGM-65E was an older version which the Harrier couldn't self laze, not sure of the exact reasons.

The AGM-65E2 (USAF AGM-65L) is a newer variant developed around ~2012 with a digital semi-active laser seeker and can be self lased.

For gameplay reasons the older missile was allowed to be self lased in DCS, now the DCS Harrier has been updated to reflect 2015 specs. both the E and E2 variants are in game.

When discussing Harrier capabilities it's important to be specific about the date e.g. Sidearm stock was depleted by ~2000, the TGP was mounted on the wing stations in ~2004 and it was only after ~2012 that the TGP could be mounted on the centerline (same time as the AGM-65E2).

If you have evidence of the Harrier self lasing prior to 2012, I'm sure Razbam would be willing to review your feedback.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Ramsay

[HR-Crumble]

AFAIK the AGM-65E was an older version which the Harrier couldn't self laze, not sure of the exact reasons.
The AGM-65E2 (USAF AGM-65L) is a newer variant developed around ~2012 with a digital semi-active laser seeker and can be self lased.
For gameplay reasons the older missile was allowed to be self lased in DCS, now the DCS Harrier has been updated to reflect 2015 specs. both the E and E2 variants are in game.
When discussing Harrier capabilities it's important to be specific about the date e.g. Sidearm stock was depleted by ~2000, the TGP was mounted on the wing stations in ~2004 and it was only after ~2012 that the TGP could be mounted on the centerline (same time as the AGM-65E2).
If you have evidence of the Harrier self lasing prior to 2012, I'm sure Razbam would be willing to review your feedback.

Some great info there thanks!


I don't have evidence specific to the Harrier firing an E in self lase mode but I have an AGM-65E document stating it's able to be lased by the firing aircraft itself and it discusses being used on the F/A-18C and AV-8B N/A.

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[Recluse]

There is an older thread linked below from when the E2 first came out (and the -F almost went away) that mentioned the E2 has a better seeker and software that allows self-laze. 

 

I remember reading that the seeker/software on the E would sometimes lose the laser spot due to its own rocket plume obscuring the own-ship fired laser, which wasn't an issue with the geometry of a buddy lase. The E2 could filter out that interference.  I can't find that anywhere, so maybe I imagined it. The link below describes various characteristics of the E2 which probably aid in the Self-Laze capability.

In truth, the other DCS platforms (e.g. F/A-18) should probably require the E2 vs. E for self lasing as well

 

https://warisboring.com/the-maverick-missile-is-perfect-for-hitting-fast-moving-vehicles/

[HR-Crumble]

Here is an excerpt from an official DOD document on the 65E - note the section pertaining to the designator can be the launch aircraft.

Under Functional Description.



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[Swift.]

6 hours ago, HR-Crumble said:

Here is an excerpt from an official DOD document on the 65E - note the section pertaining to the designator can be the launch aircraft.

Under Functional Description.



Sent from my IN2013 using Tapatalk
 

Can't read the text because it's too blurry, but FWIW I've heard something about hornet not being able to self lase 65Es if it's using Litening but it can if using ATFLIR. So that might explain why we only ever see specific mention of 65L 'adding' self lase capabilities in marine documentation.

[Ghostrider142]

Is this up to date?

[date7466]

Should AGM65H and AGM65D be able to simultaneously lock two targets， F16 is sufficient

[Ramsay]

3 hours ago, date7466 said:

Should AGM65H and AGM65D be able to simultaneously lock two targets

AGM-65H and AGM-65D aren't in the USMC AV-8B's inventory, they use AGM-65E/E2 LMAV and AGM-65F IRMAV versions.

The RL USMC AV-8B Master Flight Syllabus Guide make no mention of ripple firing Mavericks.

AFAIK to quickly fire on two targets (in a modern scenario) - you'd create TOO mark points or target points and switch between them.

 

3 hours ago, date7466 said:

 F16 is sufficient

I suspect the F-16C's ability to lock separate IRMAV targets per station and ripple fire is an older technique that pre-dates the AV-8B's TPOD (~2004). As said, AFAIK there's no documentation of the AV-8B ripple firing IRMAV's.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Ramsay
Spelling

[date7466]

However, it is practical to simultaneously lock two targets before entering range

AV8B What's wrong with the inability to launch when the gun pod is often aimed at the target

[gulredrel]

2 hours ago, date7466 said:

AV8B What's wrong with the inability to launch when the gun pod is often aimed at the target

Do you mean IR Mavs do not launch, even if crosshairs are collapsed and locked to the target? I also have this happen lately and don't know why. Sometimes re-cage, un-cage SSS FW, slew and TDC depress to lock the same target again works and I'm able to fire.

Don't know if it has something to do with launch constraints regarding direction and the position of the seeker looking? But I'm no where near gimbal and pressing the pickle button will only play the beep (Tone selected with the OSB button) but the missile will not come off the rail.

[date7466]

34分钟前，gulredrel说：

Do you mean IR Mavs do not launch, even if crosshairs are collapsed and locked to the target? I also have this happen lately and don't know why. Sometimes re-cage, un-cage SSS FW, slew and TDC depress to lock the same target again works and I'm able to fire.

Don't know if it has something to do with launch constraints regarding direction and the position of the seeker looking? But I'm no where near gimbal and pressing the pickle button will only play the beep (Tone selected with the OSB button) but the missile will not come off the rail.

i mean the machine gun pod is often aimed at the target is unable to fire, leaving the target and being able to fire.

[Eugel]

15 minutes ago, date7466 said:

i mean the machine gun pod is often aimed at the target is unable to fire, leaving the target and being able to fire.

Check your throttle setting. The gun is powered by bleed air from the engine. If your engine RPM is too low, you can´t fire.

 

 

[gulredrel]

Derailing the Mav thread but yes, to fire the gun at least 70% rpm is required down low as the mechanism uses bleed air from the compressor section. At higher altitude rpm must even be higher.

[date7466]

12小时前，Eugel说：

Check your throttle setting. The gun is powered by bleed air from the engine. If your engine RPM is too low, you can´t fire.

 

 

Thank you very much. This question has been confusing me for a long time

[date7466]

2023/8/30 PM5点28分，Ramsay说：

AGM-65H and AGM-65D aren't in the USMC AV-8B's inventory, they use AGM-65E/E2 LMAV and AGM-65F IRMAV versions.

The RL USMC AV-8B Master Flight Syllabus Guide make no mention of ripple firing Mavericks.

AFAIK to quickly fire on two targets (in a modern scenario) - you'd create TOO mark points or target points and switch between them.

 

I suspect the F-16C's ability to lock separate IRMAV targets per station and ripple fire is an older technique that pre-dates the AV-8B's TPOD (~2004). As said, AFAIK there's no documentation of the AV-8B ripple firing IRMAV's.

 

Shooting two at the same time, why doesn't the hovering machine gun function

[Recluse]

True Lies is not a documentary