LD-10 RCS value change - What was the old value?

[johnv2pt0]

In the patch today, 21 July 2021, it's noted the LD-10 radar cross section value was changed to 0.07.  Does anyone know what the old value was?  Thanks ~

[El Phantasmo]

Not sure but now they are getting swatted down by SA-10s

[uboats]

it was 0.04, in ref to old agm88 0.05

51 minutes ago, El Phantasmo said:

Not sure but now they are getting swatted down by SA-10s

yup, that's required by ED

[johnv2pt0]

Thanks!

[Hodo]

On 7/22/2021 at 4:20 PM, uboats said:

it was 0.04, in ref to old agm88 0.05

yup, that's required by ED

What's the current Agm-88 numbers?  

 

[Exile5121]

On 7/22/2021 at 3:20 PM, uboats said:

yup, that's required by ED

Um, Why?

If it's because of "unfair balance" that's utter toss, imagine meteors with range similar to an old 120 model. 
 

[Ignition]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:02 AM, Exile5121 said:

Um, Why?

If it's because of "unfair balance" that's utter toss, imagine meteors with range similar to an old 120 model. 
 

 

Maybe because of how radars work in DCS.

They were invisible to even a SA-15.

[GGTharos]

^^^^

This.  People want their silver bullet all the time, but the fact is that taking down a powerful SAM site requires you to overwhelm it so that some of your weapons get through or they're forced to temporarily shut down, or possibly employ other tactics (Which are not currently possible in DCS).

[Coole28]

Wait, are SA-15s supposed to be able to shoot down LD-10s now?  I’ve taken down at least a dozen this last week and none of them even attempted a shoot down.  Only thing that ever gets engaged by SAMs for me are 802s and LS-6s.  SA-19s will engage GB-6s with guns only.

[GGTharos]

LD-10s have no special attributes that should make them immune to an SA-15.  Their RCS will be a bit lower than a HARM but not that much. 

[falcon_120]

1 hour ago, Coole28 said:

Wait, are SA-15s supposed to be able to shoot down LD-10s now?  I’ve taken down at least a dozen this last week and none of them even attempted a shoot down.  Only thing that ever gets engaged by SAMs for me are 802s and LS-6s.  SA-19s will engage GB-6s with guns only.

Basically in DCS now both AGM88 and LD10 are shot down by modern sams (like SA15 and SA10). However from my testings I can see that they are only attacked when their speed drop to some extent (I dont know the threshold). 

 

So for example, if you attack an SA15 from just outside its max range or just when he start shooting at you, the system will not be able to take out your ARM. Same with SA10 or SA11 if you make a pop up attack from close enough. 

 

I don't know if that makes total sense, other than a very fast missile gives no more than 6-10 seconds response time, while when launched from further away it will provide up to a minute and a half of preparing time for the site to defend.

 

The missing piece of the puzzle are bombs, which are still totally invisible to SAMs, so a JSOW is taken out easily by a SA11 while a GBU38 is a secured hit (if coordinates are ok ofc)

[Hawkeye_UK]

Also Nasams shoot down just about anything ....

Also intercepting bombs in terminal velocity is a very different beast, they are generally going alot faster (just supersonic) in the terminal stage on impact than a long missile sead shot.

Its fair to say that the 2 sam systems you mention are completely incapable of intercepting bombs.

[Coole28]

36 minutes ago, falcon_120 said:

Basically in DCS now both AGM88 and LD10 are shot down by modern sams (like SA15 and SA10). However from my testings I can see that they are only attacked when their speed drop to some extent (I dont know the threshold). 

 

So for example, if you attack an SA15 from just outside its max range or just when he start shooting at you, the system will not be able to take out your ARM. Same with SA10 or SA11 if you make a pop up attack from close enough. 

 

I don't know if that makes total sense, other than a very fast missile gives no more than 6-10 seconds response time, while when launched from further away it will provide up to a minute and a half of preparing time for the site to defend.

 

The missing piece of the puzzle are bombs, which are still totally invisible to SAMs, so a JSOW is taken out easily by a SA11 while a GBU38 is a secured hit (if coordinates are ok ofc)

 

36 minutes ago, falcon_120 said:

Basically in DCS now both AGM88 and LD10 are shot down by modern sams (like SA15 and SA10). However from my testings I can see that they are only attacked when their speed drop to some extent (I dont know the threshold). 

 

So for example, if you attack an SA15 from just outside its max range or just when he start shooting at you, the system will not be able to take out your ARM. Same with SA10 or SA11 if you make a pop up attack from close enough. 

 

I don't know if that makes total sense, other than a very fast missile gives no more than 6-10 seconds response time, while when launched from further away it will provide up to a minute and a half of preparing time for the site to defend.

 

The missing piece of the puzzle are bombs, which are still totally invisible to SAMs, so a JSOW is taken out easily by a SA11 while a GBU38 is a secured hit (if coordinates are ok ofc)

Ah ok, that makes sense.  I always try and get as close as possible when doing SEAD, rarely do my LD-10s go below 1,000 knots at the time of impact.