Tomcat BVR tactics - Ward Carroll

[DD_Fenrir]

Radar as a form of electro-magnetic energy is subject to all sorts of curious phenomena; phasing, constructive and destructive interference patterns and even glinting.

 

You will get all sorts of these spurious returns if you point an airbourne radar at a mountain range; the varied topography, and reflectivity will create vast amounts of interactions and unpredictable returns as radar waves scatter, direct path reflect or rebound off several surfaces.

 

Sure, you can filter a great deal out, but if you get even one spurious reflection that manages to escape the filters in the vicinity of a contact that the WCS is attempting to build and maintain a track file around it will introduce an uncertainty error that could, if large enough, create erroneous track files.

 

How could a return escape the filters?

 

Pulse Doppler relies on the intervals between returns to fathom the speed of a return and if it should be filtered; if one return is delayed by hitting a mountain bouncing off a valley wall then returns at the exact same time that a second pulse is expected to return then how is the radar expected to differentiate? Answer, IT WON'T.

 

Suddenly a terrain return that would ordinarily be filtered is not. 

 

Whether this is intentionally modelled by DCS or HB, I can't authoritatively state; however I can state that in DCS looking down or along at contacts in proximity to (not amongst) mountainous I repeatedly find TWS track files to be less reliable than in other terrain types, because I have experienced it repeatedly. For the past 2 years.

 

 

[Jakey-Poo]

8 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

4. Crank - push the targets to within 5-10 degrees of your radar gimbal until pitbulll (the TTI numbers to the right of the track will flash); the crank should be done promptly but not too vigorously as the radar gimbal motors can only go so fast...

Thanks.  This section answers my question.  Aside from the odd drop my only consistent issue is identifying when the missile actually goes active.  Reading old posts it seems to have been broken in one direction or the other up until recently. 

[draconus]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:04 PM, Karon said:

If you think about it, men have been enjoying and dreaming about others' old sea stories since ancient times.

Speaking of which, when will we hear yours?

If you read forums carefully he already did tell a few.

[eatthis]

am i right inn thinking this timeline is very agressive, ie both go in together and when you both notch then your sa gets patchy.
in dcs we fight ai and when in pairs we tend to use chainsaw. 
1 you dont get in each others way or target the same badguy lol (also means you can get away with less coordination ie new guys can do it) 
2 when 1st guy goes cold wingy is coming in behind so in theory you always have radar on the badguys, that seems a more defensive strategy to my untrained eyes
what are you guys input to that?

[GGTharos]

How does your chainsaw work when you're SARH-only?

[captain_dalan]

Or when having to actually stop the bandits before they reach a certain point, as opposed to just surviving the fight and/or scoring the best K/D ratio? 

[eatthis]

36 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

How does your chainsaw work when you're SARH-only?

1 we dont tend to use sparrows
2 works the same just crank and turn cold a little later

26 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

Or when having to actually stop the bandits before they reach a certain point, as opposed to just surviving the fight and/or scoring the best K/D ratio? 

1 of the pair is always attacking the bandits, they either die or go defensive then the 2nd guy comes in and mops up

[TLTeo]

1 hour ago, eatthis said:

am i right inn thinking this timeline is very agressive

Well yeah, the situation is "4 bandits are approaching the carrier group and they need to be shot down asap", not "you're escorting a strike package". Of course you will use your most aggressive tactics in that scenario.

[QuiGon]

23 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Well yeah, the situation is "4 bandits are approaching the carrier group and they need to be shot down asap", not "you're escorting a strike package". Of course you will use your most aggressive tactics in that scenario.

 

Indeed, but this kind of situational dependent thinking with a bigger picture in mind is a bit foreign to the DCS crowd I would think

Edited August 19, 2021 by QuiGon

[captain_dalan]

10 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Indeed, but this kind of situational dependent thinking with a bigger picture in mind is a bit foreign to the DCS crowd I would think

 

Amen

[eatthis]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:01 PM, QuiGon said:

 

Indeed, but this kind of situational dependent thinking with a bigger picture in mind is a bit foreign to the DCS crowd I would think

 

my sqn mostly does cap in support of other sqns (f16 f18 and a10) against ai, thats what most of our mission nights are. rightly or wrongly in the air im always trying to think big. we tend to have 3 or 4 pairs on mission nights with quite a broad mission to do

[captain_dalan]

No time (on my side) to participate in a squadron, but as an individual and sometimes as one of a pair in MP, i generally prefer the more aggressive approach. Especially when outnumbered. Even against targets with longer sticks. Hit them hard and keep them on the receiving end. Does it conform to any real-life doctrine? I have no idea. Never been a pilot IRL, even less so a military one, but from a tactical perspective, given my platform and mission of choice, this is what makes most sense to me. Maybe the chainsaw would work better for more modern planes, heck if i know. I like to fight where i have the advantage though, and the chainsaw just doesn't seam like its providing enough of that in this case. Just my (arbitrary small integer of) cents here. 

But if you have a cooperative likeminded individuals to fly with, why not experiment and share the results? Tell us what works better in CAP, Fighter sweep or Intercepts?  

[dundun92]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:42 AM, DD_Fenrir said:

Pulse Doppler relies on the intervals between returns to fathom the speed of a return and if it should be filtered; if one return is delayed by hitting a mountain bouncing off a valley wall then returns at the exact same time that a second pulse is expected to return then how is the radar expected to differentiate? Answer, IT WON'T.

Not quite correct; that is how range gated pulse works. PD has one other tool to use, the doppler shift of the returned signal, and that will be = to aircraft ground speed, always. It doesnt matter in PD that 2 signals arrive at the same time, if its inside the notch filter and/or below the noise floor, it will get filtered out. That being said, mountains will likely produce more clutter than flat terrain and require a higher noise floor, which will decrease radar performance/reliability overall IRL, but not for the reason described