BreaKKer Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Was just reading over some AIM-54A testing and documents IRL and for the initial DCS development, and I noticed this Maximum Range Intercept Target - 52,000ft, M1.55. Launch - 45,000ft, M.145. Range 110nmi. Result: Intercepts irregularly, largely due to missile guidance logic. The closure rate in this is going to be 1800+ knots, which we can’t do anymore in DCS because of the target aspect implementation which limits nose aspect to -600 to 1800. Was curious if this was ever going to be refined after the discussion had in a previous forum post? sauce: http://media.heatblur.se/AIM-54.pdf BreaKKer CAG and Commanding Officer of: Carrier Air Wing Five // VF-154 Black Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, BreaKKer said: Was just reading over some AIM-54A testing and documents IRL and for the initial DCS development, and I noticed this Maximum Range Intercept Target - 52,000ft, M1.55. Launch - 45,000ft, M.145. Range 110nmi. Result: Intercepts irregularly, largely due to missile guidance logic. The closure rate in this is going to be 1800+ knots, which we can’t do anymore in DCS because of the target aspect implementation which limits nose aspect to -600 to 1800. Was curious if this was ever going to be refined after the discussion had in a previous forum post? sauce: http://media.heatblur.se/AIM-54.pdf Maybe it's expected to offset the angle after launch? Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatthis Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 2 hours ago, BreaKKer said: The closure rate in this is going to be 1800+ knots, which we can’t do anymore in DCS because of the target aspect implementation which limits nose aspect to -600 to 1800. Was curious if this was ever going to be refined after the discussion had in a previous forum post? what do you mean? i regularly see 1200+ closure. are you saying dcs wont allow 1800 closure?? 7700k @5ghz, 32gb 3200mhz ram, 2080ti, nvme drives, valve index vr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
near_blind Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, eatthis said: what do you mean? i regularly see 1200+ closure. are you saying dcs wont allow 1800 closure?? The Radar won't display contacts with closure of >1800 knots as it is currently implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatthis Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 1 hour ago, near_blind said: The Radar won't display contacts with closure of >1800 knots as it is currently implemented. Oh, thats wierd why not? That could make intercepting a mig25 or sr71 head on very awkward then 7700k @5ghz, 32gb 3200mhz ram, 2080ti, nvme drives, valve index vr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreaKKer Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, eatthis said: Oh, thats wierd why not? That could make intercepting a mig25 or sr71 head on very awkward then Or you know, supersonic cruise missiles that the tomcat was made to fight 1 BreaKKer CAG and Commanding Officer of: Carrier Air Wing Five // VF-154 Black Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreaKKer Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 6 hours ago, captain_dalan said: Maybe it's expected to offset the angle after launch? Cranking on a supersonic missile? Seems a bit counterintuitive seeing the reliability for the radar to keep TWS tracks BreaKKer CAG and Commanding Officer of: Carrier Air Wing Five // VF-154 Black Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 53 minutes ago, BreaKKer said: Cranking on a supersonic missile? Seems a bit counterintuitive seeing the reliability for the radar to keep TWS tracks Worth a try! Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 I'm absolutely not any kind of signals engineer at all, but I believe it's PRF eclipsing. The radar return is happening whilst the radar is in the transmit part of it's cycle rather than in the receiving part of the cycle. This is probably a grossly simplified explanation, but that's why the radar has limits on the closure it can work with. It is apparently less of an issue with pulse mode however that's not really particularly helpful when launching 54s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreaKKer Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) My assumption on how the closure rate gates worked after an upgrade phase went something like: Nose- 2600 closing, 1200 opening Beam- 1800 closing, 1800 opening tail- 1200 closing, 2600 opening This goes under the same ±800. Edited September 13, 2021 by BreaKKer BreaKKer CAG and Commanding Officer of: Carrier Air Wing Five // VF-154 Black Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 On 9/12/2021 at 9:11 PM, eatthis said: are you saying dcs wont allow 1800 closure? This is limitation of AWG-9 to the dev's best knowledge, not all DCS radars. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) And what about Vc Switch? From HB F-14 manual: The Vc switch (18) controls the rate scale on the DDD in the pulse doppler search modes. X-4 sets the scale to 800 knots opening to 4,000 knots closing, NORM sets the scale to 200 knots opening to 1,000 knots closing and VID sets the scale to 50 knots opening to 250 knots closing. Now why would there be need for this switch if AWG-9 was hard caped to 1800 knots closure in PD mode. This is one of the things that does not make logical sense to me and I think it is (that 1800 knots closure cap, if its true) wrong implementation of AWG-9 capability. Edited September 14, 2021 by Golo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreaKKer Posted September 14, 2021 Author Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Golo said: And what about Vc Switch? From HB F-14 manual: The Vc switch (18) controls the rate scale on the DDD in the pulse doppler search modes. X-4 sets the scale to 800 knots opening to 4,000 knots closing, NORM sets the scale to 200 knots opening to 1,000 knots closing and VID sets the scale to 50 knots opening to 250 knots closing. Now why would there be need for this switch if AWG-9 was hard caped to 1800 knots closure in PD mode. This is one of the things that does not make logical sense to me and I think it is (that 1800 knots closure cap, if its true) wrong implementation of AWG-9 capability. Tested it, doesn’t change it. I thought the exact same thing, but it only effects STT symbology. Closing Rate Symbol on the right side Edited September 14, 2021 by BreaKKer BreaKKer CAG and Commanding Officer of: Carrier Air Wing Five // VF-154 Black Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 There are no guarantees that the switch symbology matches the actual limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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