Is the 3 second trigger correct?

[WelshZeCorgi]

I'm confused about the 3 second trigger. Are you supposed to hold the trigger/button for 3 seconds, then the command to release the missile is performed? And if you release the trigger or the button before the 3 seconds are complete, the command to launch is cancelled?

 

Or is the trigger/button simply pulled or pushed and then 3 seconds later the command is given, regardless of if you released the trigger/button before the 3 seconds is up?

 

I was working under the assumption that if you release the button before the 3 seconds are up, before the missile is released, the launch will not go through. I thought this was a safety feature to prevent sending a fox 3 if a friendly contact popped up or the contact you were launching on wasn't hostile, whatever, but that's not how it's implemented in HB's F-14.

 

And is it implemented correctly? I mean, what's the point of adding an additional 2 seconds till release if you can't stop the launch by releasing the trigger or the button before the 3 seconds are up? If the 1 second trigger and the 3 second trigger operates the same way, what's the point of having both triggers? Why not just have the 1 second trigger work under all conditions? Is this another +1800 closure rate mistake, where they glossed over a small detail and implemented one or the other trigger functions wrong?

Edited September 30, 2021 by WelshZeCorgi

[Noctrach]

13 minutes ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

Or is the trigger/button simply pulled or pushed and then 3 seconds later the command is given, regardless of if you released the trigger/button before the 3 seconds is up?

This, to quote the manual: "Normally the launch to eject (LTE) cycle of the missile is 3 seconds meaning time from trigger depression to missile ejection. The exception is the ACM active mode where the LTE is shortened to 1 second if within 15° from ADL."

 

But the easiest way to find out is to try it

[WelshZeCorgi]

Yeah, but is it implemented correctly? I mean, what's the point of adding an additional 2 seconds till release if you can't stop the launch by releasing the trigger or the button before the 3 seconds are up? If the 1 second trigger and the 3 second trigger operates the same way, what's the point of having both triggers? Why not just have the 1 second trigger work under all conditions? Is this another +1800 closure rate mistake, where they glossed over a small detail and implemented one or the other trigger functions wrong?

Edited September 30, 2021 by WelshZeCorgi

[near_blind]

9 minutes ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

Yeah, but is it implemented correctly? I mean, what's the point of adding an additional 2 seconds till release if you can't stop the launch by releasing the trigger or the button before the 3 seconds are up?

 

Because it's not a safety thing, it actually takes that long for the aircraft to pass the necessary information to the missile and configure it for launch. The LTE is shorter when the ACM cover is up because the aircraft is passing less information to the missile (thus making it more susceptible to missing irl).

[Lt_Jaeger]

I can only reply for some ground base missile, but there too you got a delay. It was enough just to press the fire button for a short moment and then the MSL took her time to get all the system working like starting power supply, fire up the gyro and the hydraulics and stuff. I can imagine that's the same for the A/A MSL, but for sure, in ACM mode there has to be some draw backs for the shorter time or it is, due to the close distance just not necessary to "adjust" the systems for the additional 2 sec. 

 

 

[Eagle7907]

This is my observations as well. Shots with ACM cover up with sparrows tend to not work very well and miss consistently more than with the cover down. Yes it causes the missile to fire quicker hence in an ACM environment, but to me that logic shows sidewinders would be more logical to use for snap shots in a furball. I leave the cover down.


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[lunaticfringe]

4 hours ago, near_blind said:

 

The LTE is shorter when the ACM cover is up because the aircraft is passing less information to the missile (thus making it more susceptible to missing irl).

This is partially correct.

In the event that the ACM cover is up and the AWG-9 has an STT acquired target prior to trigger down, the data dump/Doppler injection is normal, and the launch proceeds as standard.  If the AWG-9 does not have an STT acquisition, the target Doppler is unknown, so the FCS dumps a simulated signal based on the RIO's set aspect switch and launches the missile listening to CW rather than Pulse/PD.  The English bias, seeker directive, etc are all per standard; the only other real change is the lack of a computed range calculation.

In other words, the missile can be less reliable with the ACM switch up, but it's based on your having a lock or not, not the switch itself.  
 

Edited October 1, 2021 by lunaticfringe

[Dannyvandelft]

Nope. Just click the trigger, 3 seconds later the missile drops.

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[QuiGon]

The launch time to eject (LTE) differes depending on launch conditions (there are more conditions than just the ACM cover) and this is simulated in DCS:

 

On 11/4/2020 at 12:57 PM, IronMike said:

1. TWS with range >10NM: LTE (launch to eject) 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile goes active at 16 seconds TTI (time-to-impact)

 

2. PDSTT with range >10NM: LTE 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile does not go active (SARH/DL all the way to target)

 

3. TWS or PDSTT with range <10NM, or PH ACT selected: LTE 3s, no loft, active directly after launch

 

4. PSTT or BRSIT or (ACM cover up with no track or PSTT or PDSTT): LTE 1s (unless STT and angle >15deg then 3s), no loft, active immediately

 

5. This also means the in-flight missiles with TWS will no longer go active if tracking is lost, the F-14 is destroyed, the radar is disabled etc. before 16s TTI. However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time

 

(Note that the 16 seconds TTI for pitbulling is outdated info and has been replaced by a distance based pitbul activation, which has three settings, that the RIO can set: SMALL = 6NM, NORM = 10NM, LARGE = 13NM.)

Edited October 1, 2021 by QuiGon

[Hummingbird]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:32 AM, QuiGon said:

5. This also means the in-flight missiles with TWS will no longer go active if tracking is lost, the F-14 is destroyed, the radar is disabled etc. before 16s TTI. However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time

 

I wish Jester was smart enough to do that... 

[DSplayer]

1 hour ago, Hummingbird said:

 

I wish Jester was smart enough to do that... 

Jester doesn't do anything since he can't do anything in that situation.

[Hummingbird]

6 minutes ago, DSplayer said:

Jester doesn't do anything since he can't do anything in that situation.

 

Of course he can, all he has to do is keep the extrapolated track and send the "go active" signal where the AWG9 predicts the target will be based on the previous info, but instead as soon as a track is lost jester switches back to default so the missile never goes active. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Hummingbird

[Snappy]

1 hour ago, Hummingbird said:

 

Of course he can, all he has to do is keep the extrapolated track and send the "go active" signal where the AWG9 predicts the target will be based on the previous info, but instead as soon as a track is lost jester switches back to default so the missile never goes active. 

 

Thought we just had a discussion in another thread about the RIOs/WCS‘s capability to manually send a

-go active- signal to a phoenix that’s already inflight in order to save an otherwise likely to be wasted shot and the official response was, as of now there’s not enough verifiable info to implement that capability..

 

Edit : Here’s the thread in question,if I misunderstood you and you were talking about sth else just disregard my whole post.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Snappy

[Hummingbird]

I am talking about the WCS being able to store a track and send the active signal when the missile reaches the predicted location of the lost target.  You can do this with a human RIO atm, but not with jester... Atleast not in my experience. 

 

Lose TWS track with jester, and the missile is dead.  

Edited October 2, 2021 by Hummingbird

[Golo]

56 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

Lose TWS track with jester, and the missile is dead.

I was under the impression that you dont have to do it manually when launching 54s in TWS. Isnt target automatically put in track hold and if lost missile will still continue to predicted point and will receive activate signal? 

[sLYFa]

I managed to get hits on extrapolated tracks several times, although it is rare since the target is unlikely to be where the lost track predicts it to be. What is currently broken is that TTI wont flash on a lost track but the go-active signal is still sent automatically.

[Hummingbird]

2 hours ago, Golo said:

I was under the impression that you dont have to do it manually when launching 54s in TWS. Isnt target automatically put in track hold and if lost missile will still continue to predicted point and will receive activate signal? 

 

That's what it's supposed to, but I've yet seen it happen online with jester in the backseat. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Hummingbird