Bunny Clark Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 I've finally finished (for now) a complete overhaul of my startup checklists. These are intended for realistic but quick startup, that skips steps which are unnecessary in DCS. I've got checklists for the A-10C, A/V-8B, F-14, F-16, F/A-18, JF-17, L-39, Mirage 2000, and Mi-24P. You can download them all here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3314229/ 4 Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards
King39 Posted October 8, 2021 Posted October 8, 2021 Sorry Man, I hate to be an also-ran but one thing I distinctly remember about my 2 Viper incentive flights were arming the seats on the Arm/Dearm Ramps at the end of the runway. Great effort, though. They look great. Thanks for the work. 3
Bunny Clark Posted October 10, 2021 Author Posted October 10, 2021 Yes, there are some DCS-ism here. As I said, while realism is a factor, so is speed and things that are game-relevant. On 10/7/2021 at 6:02 PM, Desert Fox said: Why put the emergency brake on when you start left engine first? Because in DCS the INS alignment can occasionally go haywire if you don't have a brake on. Quote Why the ejection seat yet? Why would you need it? It's set before takeoff. Because, in my experience, the ejection seat safety lever being in the up position makes clicking on the APU start switch very difficult. Quote Why set the radios after engine start? How would you ask for startup permission? I never bother asking for startup permission. Is that even done over radio to ATC in real life? This may well be revisited when we get a new ATC system. Quote Why flip switches and knobs while the engine is running up? Better monitor engine gauges until it is stable. Because in DCS the engine will never start incorrectly, so why waste time watching the gauges? Quote Why the pitot on while still on the parking lot? Want to burn it? Can you burn the pitot tube in DCS? I've never had it happen. 2 1 Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards
Yurgon Posted October 10, 2021 Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: Because in DCS the INS alignment can occasionally go haywire if you don't have a brake on. What does the Emergency Brake Handle have to do with putting a brake on? 17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: Because, in my experience, the ejection seat safety lever being in the up position makes clicking on the APU start switch very difficult. I'm sure we all have our own points of view when it comes to realism and immersion. It's just that, if you arm the chair before closing the canopy (or when the jet is parked in a shelter), it would be rather lethal to eject. For me, that's an immersion breaker, even if it doesn't matter one bit in DCS. 17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: Because in DCS the engine will never start incorrectly, so why waste time watching the gauges? Are you sure, or have you just never observed it? I think I recall a discussion where someone couldn't get the engines to start unless they were put on continuous ignition. Turns out at around 45° centigrade outside air temperature, the engines just won't start anymore. 17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: Can you burn the pitot tube in DCS? I've never had it happen. Me neither, but why move this forward in the checklist? There's no downside to leaving it right before take-off, other than pilots forgetting it. But if they forget it, they never used a checklist in the first place. Edited October 11, 2021 by Yurgon Included OAT for clarity 3
jaylw314 Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: Yes, there are some DCS-ism here. As I said, while realism is a factor, so is speed and things that are game-relevant. Because in DCS the INS alignment can occasionally go haywire if you don't have a brake on. Because, in my experience, the ejection seat safety lever being in the up position makes clicking on the APU start switch very difficult. I never bother asking for startup permission. Is that even done over radio to ATC in real life? This may well be revisited when we get a new ATC system. Because in DCS the engine will never start incorrectly, so why waste time watching the gauges? Can you burn the pitot tube in DCS? I've never had it happen. If the goal is the minimum necessary for DCS, also skip the T/O Trim button, since the trim tabs default to neutral. What @Yurgon is referring to is that you are misunderstanding the Emergency Brake handle in the A-10C. It is NOT a parking brake--it is a valve that dumps hydraulic pressure in an emergency accumulator into the (left, correct me if I'm wrong) hydraulic system if its pump has failed. This gives you just enough pressure to use the toe brakes a few times. It does not actuate the wheelbrakes, and you'll find the plane will still roll downhill quite well with it pulled (as on some of the ramps in the Syria map). Since the A-10C has no parking brake or ability to use wheelchocks, once the engines come on to idle power, the only way to ensure you don't roll forwards while aligning is to stand on the wheelbrakes. I recall someone mentioning US aircraft do not request permission to start engines, that's a Russian thing (maybe European too?). It's perfectly fair to come up with a custom checklist in DCS, but I'd suggest having a better "cockpit flow", where everything is ordered in a way to move from one panel to the next in sequence, to reduce the risk of error or omissions. It's something NASA has been discussing in civil non-commerical aviation, where custom/homegrown checklists are the norm. I use the following flow for startup: Power panel Right Console CDU/EGI switch Lighting panel Radio panel APU/Engines start SAS Panel Left panel Center panel Right panel CMDS panel Then the remaining individual items: APU/APU Gen off Alignment DTS Load NMSP EAC On NWS On It gets the job done, can be done by memory, is faster than going through a to-do checklist and reduces the chances of errors. It would also, of course, be completely unrealistic as well as un-kosher for military use! Edited October 11, 2021 by jaylw314 2
Rongor Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: I never bother asking for startup permission. Is that even done over radio to ATC in real life? This may well be revisited when we get a new ATC system. If not requesting it, it's very usual to at least notifying the controller about you starting up, yes.
Bunny Clark Posted October 11, 2021 Author Posted October 11, 2021 19 hours ago, jaylw314 said: you are misunderstanding the Emergency Brake handle in the A-10C. It is NOT a parking brake--it is a valve that dumps hydraulic pressure in an emergency accumulator into the (left, correct me if I'm wrong) hydraulic system if its pump has failed. I did not know that, cool. Definitely no reason to pull it then, thanks for the info. 6 hours ago, Desert Fox said: If you take that list, further strip it from everything simply not doable in DCS and then also strip it from everything "not necessary", because it is not simulated or without consequences in DCS, you still get a WAY different list than yours above. That's why i got a problem with this "realistic" list. That is, interestingly, pretty much how I came up with this procedure. I started with a slightly different document (Chuck's Guide and the Dash One) and then trimmed away everything that wasn't necessary. The final step, which I think is where you have the most problems, is I re-arranged some of it to minimize the amount of time spent sitting and waiting for other steps to complete. Yah, the result isn't strictly realistic, and calling it such was probably a mistake. I like to think I fall somewhere in the middle of a Dash One startup procedure and Air Quake cold start speedrun. Maybe not? 3 Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards
JimmyWA Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 Great job, The only addition would be to change the throttle detente from off to idle before trying to start the engines. i9 12900KS, ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 APEX, 64 GB DDR5 4700 mhz, ASUS RTX4090, Water cooled, C - NVME SSD, DCS on NVME, TM HOTAS Warthog Stick (with extension) & Throttle, Crosswind rudder Pedals, 2 x Thrustmaster MFDs on LCD Screens, Varjo Aero VR, Logitech game controller
ASAP Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 On 10/10/2021 at 9:14 PM, jaylw314 said: It is NOT a parking brake--it is a valve that dumps hydraulic pressure in an emergency accumulator into the (left, correct me if I'm wrong) hydraulic system if its pump has failed. You're partially correct. Its definitley not a parking brake. The emergency brake handle does not dump hydraulic pressure into the left hydraulic system like you said, it reroutes pressure from the right side, or the emergency brake accumulator. Hydraulic pressure from the right side charges the emergency brake accumulator when the #2 (right) engine driven hydraulic pump pressurizes the right system. Under normal conditions the left hydraulic system provides all hydraulic pressure to operate the wheel brakes. The emergency brake handle is used in the event of the aircraft losing normal braking due to a loss of left side hydraulic pressure (i.e. left engine/hydraulic pump not operating, hydraulic leak, damage to the left system, etc...). If the emergency brake handle is pulled and the right hydraulic system is operational, the wheel brakes will use right hydraulic pressure and the pilot wil have unlimited wheel braking (but not nosewheel steering or anti-skid). With the emergency brake handle pulled and no right side hydraulics are available, the wheel brakes will use the pressure in the emergency accumulator which has enough pressure to give the pilot five full applications of the brakes. During normal operations the emergency brake handle should be pushed in. The only time it should be pulled out during normal ground ops is if the pilot had to start the right engine first for some reason, then you'd want the emergency brake handle pulled so you can use the brakes with right side hydraulics before the left engine and associated hydraulic pump is started... Short of wierd maintenance issues, I'm not sure why a pilot would start the right engine first. Normal procedures is engine #1 then #2. 3
King39 Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 12 hours ago, ASAP said: You're partially correct. Its definitley not a parking brake. The emergency brake handle does not dump hydraulic pressure into the left hydraulic system like you said, it reroutes pressure from the right side, or the emergency brake accumulator. Hydraulic pressure from the right side charges the emergency brake accumulator when the #2 (right) engine driven hydraulic pump pressurizes the right system. Under normal conditions the left hydraulic system provides all hydraulic pressure to operate the wheel brakes. The emergency brake handle is used in the event of the aircraft losing normal braking due to a loss of left side hydraulic pressure (i.e. left engine/hydraulic pump not operating, hydraulic leak, damage to the left system, etc...). If the emergency brake handle is pulled and the right hydraulic system is operational, the wheel brakes will use right hydraulic pressure and the pilot wil have unlimited wheel braking (but not nosewheel steering or anti-skid). With the emergency brake handle pulled and no right side hydraulics are available, the wheel brakes will use the pressure in the emergency accumulator which has enough pressure to give the pilot five full applications of the brakes. During normal operations the emergency brake handle should be pushed in. The only time it should be pulled out during normal ground ops is if the pilot had to start the right engine first for some reason, then you'd want the emergency brake handle pulled so you can use the brakes with right side hydraulics before the left engine and associated hydraulic pump is started... Short of wierd maintenance issues, I'm not sure why a pilot would start the right engine first. Normal procedures is engine #1 then #2. Wow, just wow. Former maintainer I'm guessing?
ASAP Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 23 hours ago, King39 said: Wow, just wow. Former maintainer I'm guessing? Just an interested and curious nerd who did a lot of googling.
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