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How Complete is DCS Mi-24 ?


Avio
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Have been flying in the Mi-8 for much of the time and loving it. Now thinking of getting the Mi-24, but have some questions :-

1) How complete is it now? Is the flight modelling complete and bug-free?

2) Someone posted that the Mi-24 modelling of retreating blade stall as rolling right, while the Mi-8 rolls to the left, followed by a steep pitch-up. Which is correct? If the right side rotors experience reduced lift, that should mean a gyro precession result of pitching up, right?

Hope someone could help shed light on the above. Thanks.

 

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I think the programming of both the Hip and Hind was done by an ED employee who had actually flown the Mi-8 Hip in real life... and I know they are very committed to getting everything correct. I seem to recall that the real Hip and Hind do share the same engines and rotors, but that there are in fact small differences, one being that the rotor does spin opposite from the two models. Also, one of them has shorter rotor blades (Hind?) to allow for higher top speeds? 

 

As for 1), sorry I'm not an expert so others will have to chime in!

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1) I am not a real pilot, but to me the flight model seems pretty good (similar to what you get in the Mi-8 ). It is however not yet completely bug-free. For example there currently is one extremely annoying bug with the trim:

(but I guess ED are aware and it will be fixed soon)

Other than that, if you like the Mi-8 I can only recommend the Mi-24. It may not yet be entirely complete but overall it already seems pretty good to me.

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The Mi24p is still very much a work in progress. It can definitely be flown though, and used in combat, however we are still missing some weapons (the longer ranged ATGM is not yet implemented) and there are IMO issues with the flight model that need fine tuning and fixing. These are minor issues though. 

One big aspect that is still very much a WIP is the Petrovich AI. It's very barebones for now, but it can still get the job done at least when used in the front seat. 

However it is still very enjoyable to use and fly and fight in. I had some trouble adjusting, coming from the Mi-8 which I did not expect, but I am still enjoying the module for what it is at the moment. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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If you go by major features, so systems as a whole, it is fairly complete and only missing a few weapons. If you care about polish and details, quite a lot is still missing. The trim bug is part of it and so is the lack of visual or audio feedback regarding transverse flow or VRS. Or the fact that the audio warning system is barely functional, only having a few lines, which are in Russian. Quite a few warning lights are not functional at all and some, fairly important, status lights do not work in the English cockpit, like the doppler memory indicator. Petrovich is also in a very early state. He is quite good at aiming the missiles, but can do nothing else, not even speaking.

Overall the Hind is in a decent early access state, no tomcat or JF-17, but definitely decent and playable. 

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I think the general consensus from the first weeks of release, is that while not "perfect", it was a pretty good initial release... people weren't screaming or moaning, but rather having fun, learning the new heli, figuring out what tactics worked and what would get you shot down in seconds!   In my books, that's a success when people are trying to figure tactics and having fun in the first week of release! 

 

 

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Autopilot stabilization induces longitudinal oscillations in certain flight modes which is annoying and detrimental to aim. 

gunsight still has no synchronization against moving targets. 

Gunsight shows wrong CCIP for guv gatling pods or grenade launchers. These weapons are rather ignorable in comparison to the rockets but still.  

I'm enjoying the module a lot BUT IT'S NOT IN A GREAT SHAPE

As a sidenote the rockets need much better variety of usable models like s8 DM, s, m. OFP rockets that we have are fantasy and are subpar in comparison to real DM rockets. 

Mi8 and 24 complement each other perfectly. 

Mi24 is faster, is armored has a better gunsight and is more agile. More stable in flight. Has guided missiles. Does not carry a lot of weight. 

Mi8 can carry more rockets and does carry weights more easily. 


Edited by Sobakopes
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I think the programming of both the Hip and Hind was done by an ED employee who had actually flown the Mi-8 Hip in real life... and I know they are very committed to getting everything correct. I seem to recall that the real Hip and Hind do share the same engines and rotors, but that there are in fact small differences, one being that the rotor does spin opposite from the two models. Also, one of them has shorter rotor blades (Hind?) to allow for higher top speeds? 
 
As for 1), sorry I'm not an expert so others will have to chime in!
IIRC the rotors both spin clockwise, hence they retreat on the right side, and you should tip to your right.
This is correct in the Mi-24 but wrong in the Mi-8, which tips to the left like the Huey, which spins CCW and is correct.
So we can very much assume they forgot to change this when they copied the code from the Huey to the Hip. This is not my find, I read it on this forum, which teaches me something new every day, and that's awesome!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

IIRC the rotors both spin clockwise, hence they retreat on the right side, and you should tip to your right.
This is correct in the Mi-24 but wrong in the Mi-8, which tips to the left like the Huey, which spins CCW and is correct.
 

This not true, both Mi-8 and Mi-24 have the correct behavior of a CW rotating main rotor (right pedal on collective increase, more left cyclic needed as speed increases. 

i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD

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This not true, both Mi-8 and Mi-24 have the correct behavior of a CW rotating main rotor (right pedal on collective increase, more left cyclic needed as speed increases. 
I was talking about retreating blade stall.
Sorry for not making that clear.

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Thanks a lot folks for all the advice. So I went ahead to buy the Mi-24, and found the trimming bug to be really annoying as it takes away all the precision flying, especially during landing.

Read that for this helo sim, it is best to use a special built setup to fly, instead of setting axes curves and such. I use Hotas Warthog, and the long throw needed by the stick means most time the stick is in the less responsive sections of the curves, and that makes controlling really unresponsive.

Really hope the over-correction of the trimming would be fixed soon, as I much prefer to fly it like the very nice Mi-8 (move stick-press-release-center-stick).

As for the retreating blade stall, there is still no clear picture on that. DCS professional modelling should not be affected by any "cut-and-paste" of coding, as it should follow blade and all other physics.

Had posted about this over at the Mi-8 section. Hope someone could shed more light on how the real Mi-8 (and the Mi-24) should behave at RBS.

 

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2 hours ago, Avio said:

[...] and found the trimming bug to be really annoying as it takes away all the precision flying, especially during landing. [...]

 

 

Yes unfortunately. My current workaround is to mostly use the trim-hat during precision maneuvers and landing (the hat seems to be unaffected by the bug). It's certainly not optimal but it definitely beats getting AP-induced oscillations while close to the ground.

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You can also disable the roll channel (and the pitch channel if you like) and then the mag trim button works pretty well. Or, as cow_art suggests just use the trim hat. I find it flies pretty well with the roll channel off. I turn it back on for take off and auto-pilot modes.

CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2

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4 hours ago, wowbagger said:

You can also disable the roll channel (and the pitch channel if you like) and then the mag trim button works pretty well. Or, as cow_art suggests just use the trim hat. I find it flies pretty well with the roll channel off. I turn it back on for take off and auto-pilot modes.

Roll? I get only pitch oscilation, never roll

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The trim bug seems to add extra roll when trimming. Disabling roll channel removes that.
Hmmm, just took it for a spin to test it today. Haven't done that the past month.
Notice all my previous trimming issues where gone.
I do use it with an MS FFB2 and simFFB though.

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I don't have FFB sadly (had a logi Wingman force two decades ago, but none since), so I can't speak to that.

Glad yours is working smoothly though. Still love flying the Hind. I tend to fly with all channels off most of the time except take off, hover, and auto-pilot modes.

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CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2

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11 hours ago, cow_art said:

Yes unfortunately. My current workaround is to mostly use the trim-hat during precision maneuvers and landing (the hat seems to be unaffected by the bug). It's certainly not optimal but it definitely beats getting AP-induced oscillations while close to the ground.

Whats the trim hat?

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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The 4-way hat switch found on many joysticks (but missing on many of the very inexpensive budget sticks) sometimes called  a "trim hat". In real aircraft these are most commonly used to adjust trim, but in complex fighters, warplanes, and modern helicopters they will have a lot of hat switches that will also do MANY other functions too, like adjusting radar modes and directions, weapons selections, defensive expendables like chaff and flares, on helis for aiming spotlights, radio modes/channels... but even on those, at least one hat is for trim usually

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Здравия парни.Отвечу так.На сегодняшний день Ми-24 для меня это самый любимый модуль в dcs!Не смотря на еще большую доработку по улучшению вертолета,летать на нём одно удовольствие! 

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19.10.2021 в 05:20, Avio сказал:

Thanks a lot folks for all the advice. So I went ahead to buy the Mi-24, and found the trimming bug to be really annoying as it takes away all the precision flying, especially during landing.

Read that for this helo sim, it is best to use a special built setup to fly, instead of setting axes curves and such. I use Hotas Warthog, and the long throw needed by the stick means most time the stick is in the less responsive sections of the curves, and that makes controlling really unresponsive.

Really hope the over-correction of the trimming would be fixed soon, as I much prefer to fly it like the very nice Mi-8 (move stick-press-release-center-stick).

As for the retreating blade stall, there is still no clear picture on that. DCS professional modelling should not be affected by any "cut-and-paste" of coding, as it should follow blade and all other physics.

Had posted about this over at the Mi-8 section. Hope someone could shed more light on how the real Mi-8 (and the Mi-24) should behave at RBS.

 

Take your time and you become better even regardless of the bug. Eventually

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