Ground vehicles in DCS and reguarding trees

[graywo1fg]

Hello i was just wondering if anyone from ED knew if you intend to make trees collideable because it is really frustrating trying to make missions with ground units advancing on a town or something and at max range they are firing on units in the town behind trees and stuff...... and its very aggravating when enemy units can shoot at your helicopter when they are behind a tree and you cant see them only the tracers coming through the tree. is it possible for me to turn that on? and have it in a server?

 

thanks

Gray

Edited November 24, 2008 by graywo1fg

[Shrubbo]

I believe that is going to be fixed in the new engine next year. That be an unfortunate carry over from the lockon engine. Do you find yourself avoiding them anyway and swearing if you go thru them? :D

[graywo1fg]

LOL yup :P

[Feuerfalke]

I feel your pain, graywo1fg.

 

When I fly offline, I disable the forests and I guess over time most servers will use that setting, too. Yes, it looks ugly, but it's fair and you won't have to frequently die because of bad habits, once we get colideable trees. :smilewink:

[Bucic]

Collidable trees - possible simple solution

 

Collidable trees:

Object flying definitely (*) over forest area + lower than 25m => probability of damage (**) times speed times factor

 

Ground units weapons delivery:

Object flying definitely (*) in a forest area + target at vertical angle less than 60 deg + target distance more than 200 m => kill probability equals 5%

 

Air to ground weapons delivery:

Target definitely (*) in a forest area + object at vertical angle less than -60 deg + target distance more than 50 m => kill probability equals 5%

 

 

* to eliminate small spots of trees groups form the calculation; could be only rectangular areas well inside of real forest areas showed on a map

** for example half of that or less inflicted by power lines

Just examples of values most people would be happily tricked with.

 

 

I am not much of a coder myself but I would like a response from someone in ED why similar robust solution hasn't been used. The only possible problem I see is "Object definitely in forest area" condition but I bet you can import it easily form your digital map. The forest areas in the editor map can be turned on and off so the render has to "know" the coordinates, right?

Edited November 24, 2008 by Bucic

[Groove]

I merged your thread in here Bucic, no need to open a second topic for this one.

[Bucic]

I merged your thread in here Bucic, no need to open a second topic for this one.

 

Rgr and sorry.

[Shrubbo]

Personally I would prefer to wait for the new engine and pretend the trees actually mean something. I love to fly at considerably lower heights then 25 meters so that would be all bad :D

[Schutz]

Personally I would prefer to wait for the new engine ..

 

What is this new engine people are talking about? Is it something that will be incorporated into Black Shark or are you just referring to the engine in DCS next sim project?

[Groove]

There will be a new terrain engine in the future Schutz. And no, there is no ETA yet ;)

[Bucic]

Personally I would prefer to wait for the new engine and pretend the trees actually mean something. I love to fly at considerably lower heights then 25 meters so that would be all bad :D

 

Have you ever got hit by a tank main gun? Try to pretend then :blow:

[Shrubbo]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but...

 

BS is using a heavily modified version of the lockon engine so we can play with it and ED can make some money so they can keep making good things. To put it ultra crudely it is a stop gap measure.

 

But...the helicopter code has been written so it can be relatively easily copied over into new engine that is due out next year. New engine will then be able to have modules added to it as time goes on. IE different choppers, planes, tanks, things that go boom etc. You will notice that the DCS logo has not only a helicopter but also a boat, plane and a tank in it.

 

New engine would also have trees that hurt, remember lockon is pretty old but at least it gets us flying :)

[Shrubbo]

There will be a new terrain engine in the future Schutz. And no, there is no ETA yet ;)

 

 

ahhh bugger, I thought I read "next year" somewhere. Oh well there you go :)

[Shrubbo]

Have you ever got hit by a tank main gun? Try to pretend then :blow:

 

Yeah I have damn them, that will teach me for flying high enough for them to get me again wont it, lucky shot yanks :doh:

[Schutz]

There will be a new terrain engine in the future Schutz. And no, there is no ETA yet ;)

Aha thats great news, im loving the sim but keep thinking the current engine is starting to look somewhat old, especially the ground. Well now i know there is hope! So this new engine, how will that work to get in the game? Will it be released like a totally new game, or will it be something you will have to download and patch or..?

 

[Legolasindar]

I for the moment what I have done is to remove the trees.

 

1. We are going to file ...\Eagle Dynamics\Ka-50\Config\graphics.cfg

2. We opened with Notepad

3. We look for our graphic, I use Medium, and change trees = (XXX, XXX); by trees = (0, 0);

If you like set off trees in all graphics configurations set trees = (0, 0); in the all configs Low, Medium. High.

 

Repeat, this is only for set OFF trees, no collisions tree.

 

Camera

{

current = "Medium";

Low

{

near_clip = 0.2;

middle_clip = 4;

far_clip = 60000;

 

structures = {30, 2000};

trees = {1000, 3000};

dynamic = {300, 20000};

objects = {3000, 80000};

mirage = {3000, 20000};

surface = {10000, 50000};

lights = {50, 10000};

 

lodMult = 1;

lodAdd = 100;

}

Medium

{

near_clip = 0.2;

middle_clip = 4;

far_clip = 80000;

 

structures = {40, 4000};

trees = {0, 0};

dynamic = {300, 20000};

objects = {3000, 80000};

mirage = {3000, 20000};

surface = {14000, 80000};

lights = {100, 30000};

 

lodMult = 1.5;

lodAdd = 0;

}

High

{

near_clip = 0.2;

middle_clip = 4;

far_clip = 80000;

 

structures = {60, 6000};

trees = {1000, 9000};

dynamic = {300, 20000};

objects = {5000, 80000};

mirage = {3000, 20000};

surface = {20000, 80000};

lights = {200, 80000};

 

lodMult = 1.5;

lodAdd = 0;

}

}

[Groove]

Personally im fine with the trees we have right now. It's a compromise of performance and visual details. Unfortunately making the trees solid would cost so much performance that there is not enough GPU power out there to render it.

 

Believe me, we had a discussion about this already, internally. The devs strife for hi-fidelity on all fields, unfortunately they can't make it all "perfect" from start on.

 

Turning trees off is no option for me as enemies can and will engage you out of tree lines, especially MANPADs.

[nemises]

Your units firing through trees problem could be solved with triggers also I believe.

[graywo1fg]

hmmm to have trees or no trees at all :P i think i'll stick with the trees even if units still can shoot through them it only makes it more challenging :)

[Bucic]

Personally im fine with the trees we have right now. It's a compromise of performance and visual details. Unfortunately making the trees solid would cost so much performance that there is not enough GPU power out there to render it.

 

But my solution would cost diddly squat IMHO. Again, I'm not a coder but... Furthermore I wouldn't want solid trees for years if my solution was put into action and properly tuned.

The trees look great btw but it's not the problem of this topic I think.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Bucic

[Legolasindar]

Personally im fine with the trees we have right now. It's a compromise of performance and visual details. Unfortunately making the trees solid would cost so much performance that there is not enough GPU power out there to render it.

 

Believe me, we had a discussion about this already, internally. The devs strife for hi-fidelity on all fields, unfortunately they can't make it all "perfect" from start on.

 

Turning trees off is no option for me as enemies can and will engage you out of tree lines, especially MANPADs.

 

With trees on, the enemies can look you, and shoot you, but you can look enemies and of course cant shoot if you not look.

 

For IA, trees not exist, On or Off.

[graywo1fg]

even in future DCS consoles i would be fine with being able to fly through trees but i just hate the ground units being able to see YOU through them :\

[Bucic]

even in future DCS consoles i would be fine with being able to fly through trees but i just hate the ground units being able to see YOU through them :\

 

True! I will still advertise my solution! :D I wonder if shooting Iglas (manpads) through complete overcast is still an issue. Producer's note said it is not, but who knows.

[RichardG]

Whats the point of trees if they dont provide cover and concealment for pop-up attacks and NOE flying??? Almost every combat helo tactic in the book is pretty much impossible now because the terrain engine is broken.

 

I was pretty excited about this sim until I learned about this.

[Slayer]

Personally im fine with the trees we have right now. It's a compromise of performance and visual details. Unfortunately making the trees solid would cost so much performance that there is not enough GPU power out there to render it.

 

Believe me, we had a discussion about this already, internally. The devs strife for hi-fidelity on all fields, unfortunately they can't make it all "perfect" from start on.

 

Turning trees off is no option for me as enemies can and will engage you out of tree lines, especially MANPADs.

 

 

Ever played ArmA Groove? They seem to make it work somehow. Granted the cockpits are not high fidelity but its doable on current hardware. Maybee the devs could phone over to BI and ask for some advice :P