Mirage F1 & SEPECAT Jaguar

[rkk01]

Is it just me that sees a passing resemblance between these two aircraft…?

Era, SEPECAT partners, style of undercarriage…?  Not sure what it is

Of course, if Aerges are looking for a non-Spanish project….

Edited December 17, 2021 by rkk01

[M F1]

The Sepecat isn't a full Dassault concept. It's like yous says : a cooperate made aircraft with british aerospace i think.

The engines of Mirage F1 is very different with those of Sepecat (2 but less powerful).

The F1 is at first conceived to participate to air superiority. At the opposite, the Jaguar Sepecat is only a bomber jet.

But the technology is different too. The Sepecat don't have any radar, even if their capacity was good for air-ground attack.

In the middle of the eighties, the two jet could used AS30L (missile with laser) and GBU... when the F1 was used to "bomber"... (mirage F1CT for France and even F1M for Spain for example)

[Andrew8604]

7 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Is it just me that sees a passing resemblance between these two aircraft…?

Era, SEPECAT partners, style of undercarriage…?  Not sure what it is

Of course, if Aerges are looking for a non-Spanish project….

 

I've thought that, too.  And the Mitsubishi F-1/T-2...first flight 1971.

SEPECAT Jaguar...first flight 1968 

Mirage F1...first flight 1966

...and the MiG-23, to some extent...first flight 1967.

The Jaguar would be another great jet to make.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Andrew8604
typo

[Boosterdog]

7 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

IThe Jaguar would be another great jet to make.

 

My favorite RAF type of the 70s on looks alone. It would have to be a 3rd party gamble I think. Cant see ED ever doing it. 

[Bremspropeller]

15 hours ago, M F1 said:

The Sepecat isn't a full Dassault concept. It's like yous says : a cooperate made aircraft with british aerospace i think.

The initial design was by Bréguet, before it was swallowed by Dassault.

15 hours ago, M F1 said:

The Sepecat don't have any radar, even if their capacity was good for air-ground attack.

That's mostly true. The RAF and AdlA didn't have radars, but the Indians put one Agave into their Jaguar IM to throw Sea Eagles at ships. Their IS versions look close to RAF airplanes.

 

Quote

The Jaguar would be another great jet to make.

Agree! Lots of potential for useful maps, too!

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Bremspropeller

[JB3DG]

The Jaguar looks like a F1 and a F-4 Phantom got mixed up somehow.

Edited December 20, 2021 by JB3DG

[Avimimus]

The Jaguar kind-of always reminded me of the Panavia Tornado... if it got confused and thought it was a trainer. For some reason I've always loved it a bit.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Avimimus

[slammer]

A jaguar , I buy this  sure 

[Cupra]

Jaguar.. for sure. But just if I can mount my heats on top of the wings 

[TORC]

I think it's an interesting comparison. The Jaguar started out as a trainer and light bomber (on the drawing board), and evolved into a quite capable low altitude strike aircraft. The F1 started out as an interceptor, and evolved into (in French service at least) a quite capable fighter bomber that ended up getting used a lot at low altitude.

The similarity in the design - perhaps that is what led to the similarity in end-use?

[KL0083]

Looking forward to M!!!!!lol

[turkeydriver]

Well the high wing with small area is where the similarities begin.  This was to allow good acceleration and good t/o and landing performance.  It contributed to a better low level/high speed comfort in ride performance over low wing loaded large area wings in modern designs

[TORC]

The high wing is also good for quick turnaround - You don't need as long (and heavy!) a ladder for the pilot, and the ground crew can work under the wing to quickly rearm.

[TLTeo]

I don't see how a high mounted, high loaded wing would do anything to improve takeoff or landing performance tbh. Doesn't matter where you place the wing, if the thing is tiny, it will not generate much lift. Which is part of why the Jag was known for having poor t/o performance in the first place.

[gabuzomeu]

T/O and landing performance much improved compared to Dassault delta Mirage IIIC/E-> the F1 wing allows for large flaps and slats 

With this , the landing speed goes from >160kts (IIIC) to 125 kts (F1C) (they say)

[G.J.S]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:19 PM, TLTeo said:

. . . .  Which is part of why the Jag was known for having poor t/o performance in the first place.

Used to constantly rib a Jag mate of mine that his aircraft was the only one in the inventory that required the curvature of the earth to help it get airborne! 

But, all things considered, it was a potent attack aircraft. Quick at low level, and with an impressive roll-rate. 

[TLTeo]

On 4/5/2022 at 12:02 PM, gabuzomeu said:

T/O and landing performance much improved compared to Dassault delta Mirage IIIC/E-> the F1 wing allows for large flaps and slat

Well yeah that's how pure deltas work. Doesn't mean a high loaded wing is actually good for t/o or landing performance, nor that a high mounted wing helps much, as the post I replied to implied. Besides, you're the first one to bring up the Mirage 3 in this thread...

[gabuzomeu]

Fully agree.

I mention the Mirage III because I believe that the perception of the F1 wing being good for short t/o comes from the fact that it was meant/designed by Dassault to be better than the IIIC (which it is) while not being very good in absolute terms as you point out. 

[rkk01]

10 hours ago, G.J.S said:

But, all things considered, it was a potent attack aircraft. Quick at low level, and with an impressive roll-rate. 

If only there was a dev to pick up the mantle and get a Jag into the game…

[Iberian]

On 4/7/2022 at 6:56 AM, rkk01 said:

If only there was a dev to pick up the mantle and get a Jag into the game…

DCS: Wish List - ED Forums

[rkk01]

1 hour ago, Iberian said:

DCS: Wish List - ED Forums

Yes - have done that…

A UK based dev is badly needed for DCS though. Germany, Italy and Spain have devs that have a passion for their National aircraft / air forces, and Raz have followed through with the Mirage

Of course, it doesn’t help that so much obsolete UK kit remains classified with little of no access to reference docs.

[Harry.R]

I'm sure the Jaguar won't be missing from DCS in the long term. It would be great to have more cold war jets.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

We need Jaguar, because

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[G.J.S]

On 7/20/2022 at 5:51 AM, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

We need Jaguar, because

 

 

@Victory205 HA! Another piccy of “that incident” lol .