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HMCS ACM Bore FCR gimbal limits symbology

desertowl

By desertowl
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desertowl

desertowl

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When in "ACM Bore" and the FCR is slaved to the HMCS, upon approaching gimbal limits of the FCR, the Ellipse should start moving towards the edge of the HMCS display. upon reaching the edge of the display, an X should be displayed on the ellipse marking that it is outside gimbal boundaries.

Is it intended to be incorporated into the sim? 

Best,

Mk

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WHOGX5

WHOGX5

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Posted
On 1/24/2022 at 8:06 PM, NineLine said:

If you have evidence of this, feel free to PM to me, thanks.

I don't have access to my documentation currently, but the ellipse that's displayed in ACM mode isn't supposed to just be statically attached to the JHMCS crosshair like it is currently in DCS. Rather, in real life, it shows the actual direction that the radar beam is pointing in. Therefore, when your radar reaches its gimbal limits, the ellipse won't be able to move any further in the direction your looking. The video below (depicting HAF 52+ using the same JHMCS as USAF F-16C's, posted in 2007) doesn't show the radar reaching its gimbal limit, but you can clearly see how the ellipse isn't just statically attached to the JHMCS crosshair but rather shows the actual true direction and movement of the radar beam.

 

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-Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities."

 

DCS Wishlist:

MC-130E Combat Talon   |   F/A-18F Lot 26   |   HH-60G Pave Hawk   |   E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound   |   EA-6A/B Prowler   |   J-35F2/J Draken   |   RA-5C Vigilante

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WHOGX5

WHOGX5

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Gypsy 1-1 said:

This can be seen in various videos as well as another F-16 based sim.

Also, here is documentation for M3 tapes (no reason M4 and up should be vastly different in this regard unless anyone has evidence).

 

 

564564.PNG

543535.PNG

 

Yes, and an important thing to note is that it follows FCR LOS. So even if you're within gimbal limits, if you turn your head quicker than the radar can rotate, then the ellipse will show the true direction the FCR is pointing in and lag behind until it catches up to your head movements. This is also clearly apparent in the video I linked above.


Edited by WHOGX5
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-Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities."

 

DCS Wishlist:

MC-130E Combat Talon   |   F/A-18F Lot 26   |   HH-60G Pave Hawk   |   E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound   |   EA-6A/B Prowler   |   J-35F2/J Draken   |   RA-5C Vigilante

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Comrade Doge

Comrade Doge

Posted
Posted

@BIGNEWYI may be wrong, but this request looks a bit more like a bug report than a wishlist item. To point to what others have said, the ACM ellipse should follow the actual FCR LOS (which in turn tries to follow the HMCS aiming cross), and when the FCR exceeds it's gimbal limits, the ellipse should become display limited and crossed out with an X. All the needed information is detailed in the MLU M3 manual, pages 76 to 78. It would be fantastic if the dev team would find the time to look over these details, if possible.

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BIGNEWY

BIGNEWY

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I will run it by the team, but can not promise anything. 

 

Just a quick note for everyone, please remember not to post from real world documentation here 

thanks

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Chain_1

Chain_1

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, SickSidewinder9 said:

wait, how do I get the FCR to move with my head in ACM?  I didn't see any documentation on this.

Boresight mode in the acm modes.  As an example, move the dogfight switch to dogfight and press tms forward to enter boresight mode, then look around (make sure the HMCS is powered on).

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NineLine

NineLine

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On 9/4/2022 at 4:12 AM, skywalker22 said:

No, you only have to turn on JHMCS. Please read some manual, instead of asking basic questions.

Thanks for helping him, but not for the manual shaming, please if you are going to help, be nice about it, we are all here enjoying the same hobby and we all started somewhere. Thanks.

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WHOGX5

WHOGX5

Posted
Posted

I had completely missed this, was it mentioned in the patch notes? Anyway, this implementation looks almost perfect. The only thing I can see that needs to be fixed is that the ellipse should only be visible when in bore mode. So when you enter dogfight mode the ellipse is not there, then you press TMS Up to go into bore and the ellipse appears, then when you move the ellipse onto a target and you get a lock the ellipse disappears again. But I'm really happy that the ellipse actually follows the FCR LOS just like it's supposed to and is limited by the maximum angular velocity of the radar as well as the gimbal limits! 😊

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-Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities."

 

DCS Wishlist:

MC-130E Combat Talon   |   F/A-18F Lot 26   |   HH-60G Pave Hawk   |   E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound   |   EA-6A/B Prowler   |   J-35F2/J Draken   |   RA-5C Vigilante

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Comrade Doge

Comrade Doge

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/17/2022 at 9:59 PM, WHOGX5 said:

I had completely missed this, was it mentioned in the patch notes? Anyway, this implementation looks almost perfect. The only thing I can see that needs to be fixed is that the ellipse should only be visible when in bore mode. So when you enter dogfight mode the ellipse is not there, then you press TMS Up to go into bore and the ellipse appears, then when you move the ellipse onto a target and you get a lock the ellipse disappears again. But I'm really happy that the ellipse actually follows the FCR LOS just like it's supposed to and is limited by the maximum angular velocity of the radar as well as the gimbal limits! 😊

While the ellipse is now shown proper FCR limits it still does not follow and show the actual FCR LOS and it's still stuck to the HMCS LOS. Perhaps @BIGNEWY can help us with a status on this issue....


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WHOGX5

WHOGX5

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3 minutes ago, Comrade Doge said:

While the ellipse is now shown proper FCR limits it still does not follow and show the actual FCR LOS and it's still stuck to the HMCS LOS. Perhaps @BIGNEWYa can help us with a status on this issue....

 

Yeah, I tried it myself and noticed the same thing. It works correctly as long as your JHMCS crosshair is outside of the radar gimbal limits. For some reason, when the crosshair is within gimbal limits, it just uses the old, incorrect implementation where the ellipse is simply latched to the crosshair. Should be an easy fix for ED though.

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-Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities."

 

DCS Wishlist:

MC-130E Combat Talon   |   F/A-18F Lot 26   |   HH-60G Pave Hawk   |   E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound   |   EA-6A/B Prowler   |   J-35F2/J Draken   |   RA-5C Vigilante

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falconbr

falconbr

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/4/2022 at 1:06 AM, Chain_1 said:

Boresight mode in the acm modes.  As an example, move the dogfight switch to dogfight and press tms forward to enter boresight mode, then look around (make sure the HMCS is powered on).

What is current implementation? It seams that in current open beta the ellipse is statically attached to the JHMCS crosshair, again.

Best regards,

falconbr


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Comrade Doge

Comrade Doge

Posted
Posted
Just now, falconbr said:

What is current implementation? It seams that in current open beta the the ellipse is statically attached to the JHMCS crosshair, again.

Best regards,

falconbr

Yes, it seems to be problematic again... 2 things have to be done at the moment, the ellipse following the actual FCR LOS (which moves slower) and showing the X once it crosses the gimbal limits. Perhaps @BIGNEWYcan confirm if these 2 things are already on the to-do list.

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WHOGX5

WHOGX5

Posted
Posted

In Dogfight mode there are two pieces of symbology that follow the FCR line of sight: The bore cross on the HUD and the ellipse in the JHMCS. This means that at all times that these two symbols are displayed, they should point in the same direction as they both indicate the FCR LOS. Currently, neither symbol does this, but rather the ellipse is always pointing in the same direction as your head and the bore cross is always pointing in the same direction as your aircraft. This can be emphazised, as I do in my track file, by having your aircraft point to the right of a target and your JHMCS crosshair to the left of that same target. If you slave the FCR to your JHMCS in dogfight mode, neither the JHMCS ellipse nor the HUD bore cross will ever point towards the target, but as the radar is moving from your aircrafts direction to your helmets direction, it locks the target midway as it passes over it. This tells us that the movement of the FCR is correctly modeled, but the HUD and JHMCS symbology isn't. I've attached a track file below, and I've also linked two real world videos. In the first one, you can see the ellipse following FCR LOS in a JHMCS recording, and in the second video you can see the bore cross following FCR LOS as the FCR is slaved to the JHMCS (with timestamps).

 

B_FCR_LOS.trk

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-Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities."

 

DCS Wishlist:

MC-130E Combat Talon   |   F/A-18F Lot 26   |   HH-60G Pave Hawk   |   E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound   |   EA-6A/B Prowler   |   J-35F2/J Draken   |   RA-5C Vigilante

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BIGNEWY

BIGNEWY

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yes looks like same issue and already reported 

 

Threads merged

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Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

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