correct as-is Take-off weight

[hancerPL]

Overloading the machine, you can reload the machine without any problems and it does not affect the flight. What's more, you can take off without any problems and you don't lie down on the wing. Machine weight 55733 lbs, GBU-10 load, and this significantly exceeds the take-off weight.

[BIGNEWY]

please include short track replay examples from your testing 

thanks

[Yurgon]

4 hours ago, hancerPL said:

Machine weight 55733 lbs, GBU-10 load, and this significantly exceeds the take-off weight.

That take-off weight exceeds the maximum take-off weight.

My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that the maximum take-off weight is in fact not the maximum weight at which the aircraft is still able to get airborne or land. It's more like the manufacturer's guarantee.

You can certainly take-off at higher gross weights, but if you break something, the Air Force is probably going to deduct the repairs from your next 50 to 500 pay-checks.

And if you land above max gross weight and blow a tire, well, since you know about the max gross weight, you'd have done it on purpose, which reflects poorly on you as an aviator. Which I guess is why real pilots don't brag about taking off and landing 5000 lbs above MGW or something like that.

[=475FG= Dawger]

41 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

That take-off weight exceeds the maximum take-off weight.

My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that the maximum take-off weight is in fact not the maximum weight at which the aircraft is still able to get airborne or land. It's more like the manufacturer's guarantee.

You can certainly take-off at higher gross weights, but if you break something, the Air Force is probably going to deduct the repairs from your next 50 to 500 pay-checks.

And if you land above max gross weight and blow a tire, well, since you know about the max gross weight, you'd have done it on purpose, which reflects poorly on you as an aviator. Which I guess is why real pilots don't brag about taking off and landing 5000 lbs above MGW or something like that.

There are several maximum weights.

Maximum take off weight and maximum gross weight are two different things.

Maximum takeoff weight is normally calculated to achieve the specified performance, normally the required climb gradient or runway distance or some such. Maximum gross weight is a structural limit usually.

Maximum landing weight is also a structural limit.

There are other maximum weights, some of them pretty esoteric, like the Maximum takeoff weight limited by brake energy. That's the maximum weight that you can reject the takeoff at decision speed and not blow the tires off before you stop.

 

[Frederf]

Regulation limits are not physical limits. Physical behavior at certain weights is difficult to verify as accurate as documentation of behavior beyond regulation limits are esoteric.

[hancerPL]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:29 PM, BIGNEWY said:

please include short track replay examples from your testing 

thanks

Hello

I'm sending a preview video.

link

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks, but I am not seeing a bug here, the maximum take off weight is the maximum weight for safe take off, you can exceed it and still take off, but you will be exceeding the stated maximums. 

[jaylw314]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:39 AM, =475FG= Dawger said:

Maximum takeoff weight is normally calculated to achieve the specified performance, normally the required climb gradient or runway distance or some such. Maximum gross weight is a structural limit usually.

The predominant limit for all maximum weights is generally structural, but occasionally it's defined by a performance limit (or some other feature specific to the aircraft).  Since maximum weights are usually just defined by the manufacturer without indicating what the reason for the limit is, it tough to know how often it ends up being influenced by a performance limit.  AFAIK it'd be a pretty safe bet on any maximum weight that the reason for that limit is structural.

FWIW those structural limits probably have a built in percentage safety margin, like a 50% safety margin to structural damage at 4.5g, which IIRC is the old FAA requirement for civil aircraft.  I don't know what the definition is for the A-10C, but I suspect being above a maximum weight will not result in the plane suddenly snapping in half, but the safety margin at high g's is probably reduced below what is considered safe.

Edited February 21, 2022 by jaylw314

[=475FG= Dawger]

 

A short perusal of the A-10C flight manual gives clear evidence that the maximum towing, taxi, takeoff and landing weight of 46,000 lbs is purely due to the weakness of the nose gear and its associated structure.

It has nothing to do with takeoff performance.

If you want to determine maximum weight for takeoff - limited by performance one must refer to the performance charts but even then this will not be the absolute limit for getting the aircraft off the runway.

Such a number doesn't exist, generally speaking, especially for an airplane with a severe restriction in allowable weight for a weak nose gear structure.

Edited February 21, 2022 by =475FG= Dawger

[jaylw314]

25 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

 

A short perusal of the A-10C flight manual gives clear evidence that the maximum towing, taxi, takeoff and landing weight of 46,000 lbs is purely due to the weakness of the nose gear and its associated structure.

It has nothing to do with takeoff performance.

If you want to determine maximum weight for takeoff - limited by performance one must refer to the performance charts but even then this will not be the absolute limit for getting the aircraft off the runway.

Such a number doesn't exist, generally speaking, especially for an airplane with a severe restriction in allowable weight for a weak nose gear structure.

 

So, don't take off above max gross weight from any of the runways at Ramat David  Those are some bumpy runways!

[hancerPL]

Yes, weight is ok, but it's about flight behavior. It is different without load and with full load.

[Yurgon]

3 hours ago, hancerPL said:

Yes, weight is ok, but it's about flight behavior. It is different without load and with full load.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. The aircraft should indeed behave differently between lightly and heavily loaded. That is to be expected and indeed shows that the flight model is doing a good job.

Are you saying there is something wrong about it? If so, can you describe what exactly you think is wrong?