can not reproduce Hellfires missing targets designated by JTAC.

[Marklar]

In this example out of 8 Hellfires I fired only 2 hit the target. The laser code is correct, missiles can spot and tracks the laser but for some reason they hit the ground next to the target. Missiles were fired from pilot cockpit using all three modes (direct, low and high trajectory), acquisition was set to a waypoint in targets area.

I tried the same mission in Hornet using AGM-65 E and all four fired missiles hit their targets so JTAC and lasing is not an issue.

track file 9MB https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiifDDoPHoDqhJQ-CxrHKBpZsdDqHg?e=0zOymZ

short video showing the missile launch and impact. 

 

[ddc196]

LRFD set to first or last. I've shot at a few tanks that were behind trees and missed when set to first. I set it to last and hit. Just a thought. 

[ddc196]

I just watched the first two Hellfires on your track. Your wingman is lasing and you are firing I believe. The first one you are still air born and your wingman appears to be over the trees. The second one you are both almost on the ground. Laser might have had an issue with that. I'm no expert, just guessing.

EDIT: Just read your post more clearly, JTAC is lasing. So, I'm not sure. Where is the JTAC location? Maybe they're obscured?

Edited March 22, 2022 by ddc196

[admiki]

If you are firing LOBL, check TADS to see if there is backscater warning. If there is, try changing first/last mode

[Marklar]

Thx. Will try changing LRFD but I think it's set to FIRST by default. There is nothing in front of the tank so FIRST should be the correct settings in this situation, I guess.

JTAC is a drone orbiting above the target.

[BIGNEWY]

It seems ok for me, JTAC shifts to next target and I was able to kill remaining tanks 

[Marklar]

So what did I do wrong? After I killed the first target JTAC switched to the next one but Hellfires were missing their target, as shown in the video. I think 4th or 5th missile finally killed it.

[YoYo]

On 3/22/2022 at 2:18 AM, ddc196 said:

LRFD set to first or last. I've shot at a few tanks that were behind trees and missed when set to first. I set it to last and hit. Just a thought. 

I noticed the same (like Marklar), but this works for me. Thx for the tip!

[EvilDuckDad]

I found that getting JTAC lasing to work correctly requires the firing position, and the waypoint I'm using as the acquisition source to be fairly close to a straight line that matches up with a line from the JTAC to the target being designated.  Much easier to do with a ground based JTAC.  Using and Airborne/moving lasing source requires the lasing units orbit to be offset from the targets and not orbiting the targets. Firing from a further distance also seams to improve the results.

I spend hours trying to figure this out before watching...

 

[Kharrn]

First of all: in this thread there is wrong info about own-lase or buddy-lase/JTAC-lase. It wont matter how your laser (LRFD) is set up (FIRST or LAST) when you shoot Hellfires on a REMOTE laser.

 

Now on the topic of laser detection: As far as i can tell from the last 2 month of flying the AH64D, the Hellfire seems to have a kinda small seeker - speaking of "looking" radius and reflection detection. if this is realistic or not, i dont know. But my results in usage have been around 80%, meaning the target was at least disabled on the first hit (lots of time in SP, not much in MP sadly).

Imho you cant compare the AGM65 to an AGM114 like the OP did. Also the attack profile of a Hornet is not really like the attack profile of the Apache - if you are not deliberately trying to reproduce that ofcourse.

 

For remote laser usage you dont really need to be 100% in line with the remote laser on the target BUT you also dont want to be 180° opposite to it. So yes, you surely should know from which direction the JTAC (or lets say "remote laser platform") is lasing the target and the best position to get the missile seeker on the laser is: in the line to the target - but always getting into that position does not seem tactical sound to me.

You can also test this by flying around the target at around 3-5 km for example and WAS/de-WAS the missiles as pilot when having set up the "remote laser platform" laser frequency. If you get the LOBL box on the remote laser, the actuated missile has "eyes on target" (laser spot). Remember that height also makes a big difference for detection cause of pylon articulation when WASed.

I dont know how deeply the laser reflection is simulated, but i was able to shoot and hit most targets (LOAL and LOBL) in a 120-160° arc to the target, when "remote laser platform" is in the middle (so 60-80° each side). 180-220° can get tuff depending on the target size and angle.

Im not saying the laser spot by AI (vanilla) could not be chosen better (e.g. tank turret top) to give the seeker better chance to detect, but we just have to change our tactics in this case i guess. IRL the laser detection at low heights and high angels (from gun platform to laser spot) is even worse afaik. Also IRL you would/could get a BP and final heading or laser-to-target-line for a good approach on target - or you could at least ask for it

 

K

 

[Recluse]

You can set the MSL ACQ to SKR. That way, at least when in a LOBL mode, you will see the CUED LOS cross representing the JTAC's Laser spot. This is basically LOBL except with the remote lasing.

This will help you orient yourself for the best shot and also give you a clue that the Seeker has found the laser.  You can still miss if you fire too far off "boresight" Most times you will get a warning, but what can I say? Sometimes between pulling the trigger and the missile coming off the rail, my Apache might just yaw a bit