The F-35 Thread

[RvETito]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/04/first_jsf_fighter_jet_will_cos.php

 

The Dutch authorities estimate JSF price 110 million EUR per test airframe. Ouch!

 

Wasn't it supposed to go in mass production as a cheap alternative of the F-22? If those numbers are correct it goes well above the Eurofighter for instance... And normaly test beds are cheaper than the final version which should have all the features implemented.

Edited April 22, 2009 by =RvE=Tito

[EtherealN]

Wow... That is a seriously expensive bird. Though it would be more interesting to see price estimates for production airframes.

[Kuky]

I would think test product would be more expensive as once the cost of tools, machinery etc is spread out over large number of aircraft to be produced the cost goes down.

[shaggy]

Pentagon Hack..

Or is this just a way to point the finger in someone´s face and pick a fight? which I don't think is so unlikely.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401.html

Edited April 23, 2009 by shaggy

[nscode]

Were the last two pages of this thread stealth to you? ;)

[MoGas]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401.html anybody read that?

 

greets

[shaggy]

Were the last two pages of this thread stealth to you? ;)

 

 

Sorry I dident check that good. ;) My bad

[Wilde]

Mr Sprey and Mr Wheeler ramble about the F-35 and the DoD procurement procedures in general:

 

http://www.cdi.org/program/document.cfm?DocumentID=4500&from_page=../index.cfm

 

(check the link inside to learn who they are).

[Vekkinho]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/04/first_jsf_fighter_jet_will_cos.php

 

The Dutch authorities estimate JSF price 110 million EUR per test airframe. Ouch!

 

Wasn't it supposed to go in mass production as a cheap alternative of the F-22? If those numbers are correct it goes well above the Eurofighter for instance... And normaly test beds are cheaper than the final version which should have all the features implemented.

 

Sorry I can't follow, 110 mil is a bit too much IMHO!

[GGTharos]

110 for test planes is just fine. They are test aircraft - they are limited, early production samples and as such they don't come cheap.

[Force_Feedback]

Still holding on that 49% cost overrun margin? No wonder we have to pay for the mistakes all those greedy people make :thumbdown:

 

Not to mention LM bribing our government for at least the second time. And all those people will start bitching over here about the sound. Better get the Gripen-NG and be over it. It's proven, quiet, 1 engine, is a bomb truck, and has no degraded stealth.

[Wilde]

$110 mil for a test bed is pretty expensive if you ask me. Also estimated price of the real thing is already some $200 mil per unit (including after sales service I suppose).

[Pilotasso]

You making a mistake by adding the other costs of operational aircraft into the cost of a test aircraft. F-35 doesnt cost as much as F-22's!

[Wilde]

I didn't add anything.

[Groove]

Interesting read:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSN1629060420090616?sp=true

 

plus new pic:

 

[Groove]

GE Rolls-Royce F136 JSF Engine

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKevRqZGoMo

[Groove]

 

[Vault]

Interesting read:

 

plus new pic:

 

 

Hi Groove, can you remember where you got the above picture from?, I know the picture is pretty much self explanatory but is there a technical article or pdf regarding the performance of the JSF's RCS against various radar frequency/wavelengths that was linked to the above picture?. I'd really like to read it if there is. Thanks.

[topol-m]

Yep, the performance of the JSF's RCS against various radar frequency/wavelengths will be very interesting if not classified.

[Vault]

Topol, AFAIK the JSF's VLO performance against various frequency/wavelengths figures are classified, but after the recent leak of classified data on the JSF you never know, if the VLO JSF offers no protection against VHF multimetric wavelengths that would be very interesting indeed.

[Pilotasso]

Are those precise enough for targeting?

[GGTharos]

Topol, AFAIK the JSF's VLO performance against various frequency/wavelengths figures are classified, but after the recent leak of classified data on the JSF you never know,

 

It was reported that stealth was not compromized. The data was sensitive but not 'Top Secret' sensitive. 'Classified' can be NOFOR - like a lot of the -1's.

 

if the VLO JSF offers no protection against VHF multimetric wavelengths that would be very interesting indeed.

 

No, it isn't - not even remotely. The interesting thing rather is that the RCS is small even against those, so range is limited - further, it is mostly the X-band that actual threat radars operate in (the ones that can guide weapons at you) and that is the most interesting part of the radar range for a stealth fighter.

 

They might see you, but they'll have trouble putting weapons on you while you'll be lobbing HARMs/SDBs/JDAMs at them.

[topol-m]

They might see you, but they'll have trouble putting weapons on you while you'll be lobbing HARMs/SDBs/JDAMs at them.

 

Still there must be some tricks to make modern long range radars/SAMs more effective against low RCS targets. And when the SAM detects you and can fire first beyond your weapons range the table is turned. It will be interesting at what distance S-300/S-400/Patriot can find/shoot at F-35.

[GGTharos]

Probably at around 30km, assuming they aren't being jammed. The aircraft will always out-range the SAM at this point - SDBs will fly pretty far - so far that you can launch them, beam the target SAM and not worry about having to use countermeasures. The missiles will simply not reach you - for this reason you have IADS - some radars will remain silent and come up and launch only when you are in the Rtr.

[Groove]

Sorry Vault, i dont have the data but i know where i have to ask if there are any. I will come back to you with an hopefully positive answer :)