Developers - Emergency Checklists?

[carmelid]

Cheers guys, great work :thumbup:

 

From my short experience in the IAF I have learned that the very basic flight-school trainings put a strong emphasize on dealing with emergencies. Rigorous studying of a very detailed emergency procedures checklists and extensive training on emergencies are not only the bread and butter of every trainee when studying a new aircraft, but consumes also significant share of the training schedule of experienced pilots.

 

However, I have not seen any reference for handling emergencies in the user manual, nor in the training mission.

Knowing how to fly from A to B, being able to launch missiles, and to use correctly the navigation and avionics systems in a sandbox environment is one thing. However, coping with situations such as "left engine fire", RTB with damaged engines or other kinds of critical damage, escaping from vortex ring effect etc., requires a completely different kind of knowledge and skills. Knowing how to deal with the numerous problems that "real life" might throw into your face, must becomes a second nature for a warrior flying a 50M$ machine.

 

IMHO a simulator with such strong emphasize on realism, should not neglect those aspects. Wouldn't it be great if those aspects can be enhanced by providing few more chapters, checklist and training mission?

 

Cheers

David

Edited December 17, 2008 by carmelid

[159th_Viper]

Valid Point Indeed :book:

 

Atm the extent of my emergency procedures are governed by the large Red handles on the front of my seat!

[Krippz]

Valid point. Maybe this is something that can be implemented into the current training regime at a later time. But in the interim I'm sure someone (e.g. IronHand) would make a training track or two covering the topic.

[carmelid]

"large Red handles" LOL...

Yes, it's a great relief you can always dump it and start from scratch...

But I find flying in non-vanilla conditions a real challenge, and great fun. Besides, think about the diversity of mission opportunities which opens up (give you some challenge to cope with and then bring on the bad guys...)

 

IronHand's work is great, but every 3rd party contribution be it as good as it might be, should be taken as a bonus, and not substitution for a formal documentation.

[Acedy]

Emergency procedures and checklists are part of the extended flight manual that will be available in print only early next year.

[carmelid]

Emergency procedures and checklists are part of the extended flight manual that will be available in print only early next year.

WHAT?

Sorry, that's does not make any sense to me.

It's OK to expect customers to pay more for the added value of a printed manual, but its not OK, to prevent those additions from the rest of the customers which choose to make do with the pdf version. As a customer I would definitely expect to have those additions with no extra charge once they are available, just like I expected to "get for free" patches and manual errata.

 

I am sure ED will support it's customers and will not try to force us to spend more in order to get those manual additions.

Edited December 17, 2008 by carmelid

[rmakowsky]

I believe that the extended manual will be available by print early next year but will also replace the current PDF manual.

 

Or you can just jump him with insufficient data.

[Fishu]

I've been trying to catch some fires on purpose, but a fire always seems to lead to an explosion, regardless of what I do. Has anyone had any success with putting out an engine fire?

 

Basically there's nothing more to do than isolate the engine from the systems (fuel for one..) and wait for the extinguisher to do its work, if succesful.

[RSWedge]

My current emergency procedure is to grab my ankles and kiss my arse goodbye.

[tusler]

Generally speaking, anytime you have a fire on an aircraft, you first isolate the fuel from the fire, typically this is done when the "T" handle is activated and fire surpression agent is released to the offending engine or compartment and simultainously the fuel system is shut off if it's and engine fire. The collective is then dropped in a controlled emergency decent to get the thing on the ground where the damages can be properly assessed.

 

In the sim I notice when i am on fire it is because of enemy weapons, this {sam or stinger} missles to a helicopter are almost always fatal if it results in starting a fire.

In the NATOPS manual even when going through the proceedures to initially fight a fire it is stated to begin emergency decent to any avaiable landing area. With hydraulics and overspeeds, if the altitude is available to deal with shutting down an engine, or switching the Hyd systems fine, but when you are operating close to ground or tree tops, there is usally only time to try and set it down in one piece. What will be nice is to learn in the new manual of the emergency operating restrictions such as max weight, max speed, manuvering, max weight allowed to still be able to hover on single eng. Density altitude charts and the effect. That is why I will buy the manual when it comes available.

If you have any connections, as it sounds you may, if you could get the real 2-1 or whatever the manual is that has the emergency procedures for the real aircraft you could certianly use it in the sim. I have tried but the military did not respond back to me so I have to wait.

[carmelid]

Interesting post :-) and... I do not have connections (no KA-50s in the Israeli service anyway). I think the current Manual is really scratching the surface as long as deep understanding of the aircraft is concerned. I hope further improvements in the documentation will allow us to unleash the full potential of this study sim.

[tusler]

Interesting post :-) and... I do not have connections (no KA-50s in the Israeli service anyway). I think the current Manual is really scratching the surface as long as deep understanding of the aircraft is concerned. I hope further improvements in the documentation will allow us to unleash the full potential of this study sim.

 

Perhaps you have a connection after all check out this I found

 

http://www.airforceworld.com/heli/eng/ka50.htm

"ISRAEL AIRCRAFT Industries is also working on another Russian helicopter, the Ka-50-2 Erdogan ('born to be a fighter'). With Kamov...":music_whistling:

[carmelid]

"ISRAEL AIRCRAFT Industries is also working on another Russian helicopter, the Ka-50-2 Erdogan ('born to be a fighter'). With Kamov...":music_whistling:

 

You got me :thumbup: I give up.

Yes, I am aware of the Erdogan project. But we are talking about the KA-50 aren't we :shifty: ???

Actually I have some friends working there (on other projects), but they are all signed on NDAs ya' know.

Convincing Matt giving us this enhanced PDF is a joke compared to trying to extract some real flight manuals from those guys...

[Stretch]

Today I had a main and common hydro failure, limped it back to base without the autopilot, but found myself wondering if there is a way to get the landing gear down ... complete emergency procedures checklists would be wonderful. (Right now the most we get is engine failure/engine fire, which is only a small portion of the many things in the Shark that can break on you...)

[WildBillKelsoe]

Cheers guys, great work :thumbup:

 

From my short experience in the IAF I have learned that the very basic flight-school trainings put a strong emphasize on dealing with emergencies. Rigorous studying of a very detailed emergency procedures checklists and extensive training on emergencies are not only the bread and butter of every trainee when studying a new aircraft, but consumes also significant share of the training schedule of experienced pilots.

 

However, I have not seen any reference for handling emergencies in the user manual, nor in the training mission.

Knowing how to fly from A to B, being able to launch missiles, and to use correctly the navigation and avionics systems in a sandbox environment is one thing. However, coping with situations such as "left engine fire", RTB with damaged engines or other kinds of critical damage, escaping from vortex ring effect etc., requires a completely different kind of knowledge and skills. Knowing how to deal with the numerous problems that "real life" might throw into your face, must becomes a second nature for a warrior flying a 50M$ machine.

 

IMHO a simulator with such strong emphasize on realism, should not neglect those aspects. Wouldn't it be great if those aspects can be enhanced by providing few more chapters, checklist and training mission?

 

Cheers

David

 

Shalom man! Having a look into the manual, there is a section for the flight emergencies pertaining to engine, fires, etc.. Just go to page 381/534 in the manual (section 10-45). As for the VRS, a very good in-depth study was thrown to me exactly by PeterP in my own inquiry thread here

 

In general to correct VRS, you need to be above 60KIAs on the speed, and you need to be higher than 100 feet AGL for the speeding up to occur. Don't increase the collective, but rather make an immense for'ard momentum to gain that speed.

 

Let us know if you got more questions!

Best Regards,

N_O

[Bucic]

What are you talking about? The extended manual is available for download from the official website.

 

forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=63018

Edited November 28, 2011 by Bucic

[primus_TR]

The original post is from 2008 :doh:

[Bucic]

Necromancer :D

[WildBillKelsoe]

The original post is from 2008

 

HAHAHAHA!!! Indeed :doh: