Heavy-Lift Helicopters

[RG2021]

Does anyone see the potential in cargo/heavy-lift helicopters?

 

I’ve heard that ED is planning to/is currently making a cargo plane. So, I figured, with cargo-running being a somewhat boring way of flying, cargo helicopters would be much more interesting. While you’re still hauling cargo, you also have the interesting and fun challenge of wrangling a powerful helicopter.

 

Of course, cargo planes can carry significantly heavier loads and they do have a place in DCS, with the maps being massive. However, for smaller loads, cargo helicopters would be significantly more interesting and incentivizing to fly.

 

For example, a CH-54 Tarhe or CH-53E Super Stallion could never dream of carrying as much weight as merely a C-130, but in a sim, they would be vastly more interesting. You need to slow to a hover, skillfully hold the hover, and hook up to whatever heavy load you’re lifting. Also, you can do it wherever you want!

 

I think that in addition to the C-130 (if it is indeed becoming a module), we should also get a heavy-lift helicopter for smaller, but more interesting missions.

 

Here’s a list of super cool and very fitting aircraft for the job:

CH53E Super Stallion

CH47 Chinook

CH54 Tarhe (“Sky Crane”)

Mi-6   (downside: large, 5-6 man crew)

Mi-26 (downside: large, 5-6 man crew)

 

Helicopters that are interesting and worthy, but not good as the NEXT helicopter:
UH-60

AH-1

 

The Tarhe, Chinook, and Stallion are all great options, and I’d argue better options than the Mil duo. With a small crew while still packing huge lifting muscles, they’d be ideal for the job! Especially the Tarhe with it’s 10,000lbs Daisy Cutter LZ-clearing bomb and huge muscles!

@NineLine

Sorry to bother you, buuuut…

Edited April 17, 2022 by RG2021

[Rick50]

 

All good choices. Been several threads I've participated on this general subject.

 

I think the Cobra will be done in say 2 years time or so. I've no idea which version, but I'd be looking for, and a bit more likely to be a 1980's US Army flat-glass TOW cobra. And a UH-60 will probably come too. With luck a CH-47 or CH-53 for the Tarawa class ships.

The Tarhe, while I think it's an interesting aircraft, I'm a bit doubtful that it would be made as a full DCS paid module. A free mod would be possible if there's enough interest. 

The Mi-6 and 26... those I'm not very certain of. I mean,  good idea, but I'm not super convinced that there would be huge interest for lots of people to buy such modules at the big prices. How are sales of the Huey and Hip going to be in a years' time, now that the Apache and Hind are available? How about the Gazelle's sales?

I also hope for a C-130 Herc, and AC-130 Spectre modules, with AI and realistic systems. This would be awesome for the eventual world map that's starting development. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Rick50

[MAXsenna]

I agree with you both!
I would get all of them if available!

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[RG2021]

8 hours ago, Rick50 said:

The Mi-6 and 26... those I'm not very certain of. I mean,  good idea, but I'm not super convinced that there would be huge interest for lots of people to buy such modules at the big prices. How are sales of the Huey and Hip going to be in a years' time, now that the Apache and Hind are available? How about the Gazelle's sales?

Yeah, I’ve seen loads of people interested in the Mi-6/26, but the biggest problem is the fact that they’ve got massive crews.

 

On the Tarhe, it’s a shame that many people gloss right over it, as it’s an incredible machine. A 47 or 53 would definitely be more appealing to the DCS community, as they have gunners onboard. But I’d settle for a CH53 any day!

 

But also, I know many helicopter pilots in DCS who only play DCS for the realistic helicopter physics, which are far better than any other game on the market. So, that would certainly make the Tarhe a useful and appealing aircraft to them. If they were to make a 53 or a 54, I’d prefer a 54 to be honest, but I’d settle just fine with a 53!

[RG2021]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I agree with you both!
I would get all of them if available!

Lets just hope someone from ED sees this and shares the idea with other employees of ED!

 

I just want them to know that I’m not proposing a replacement for the C-130 or any other cargo plane, but rather compliment it. Cargo helicopters would accomplish the cargo-hauling role, while also having a dynamic and challenging aspect to them, with them being helicopters rather than fixed-wing aircraft. My personal No.1 would be the CH54 Tarhe, but I know my opinion is not very widespread in the DCS community, and I accept that. But, I would also settle just fine with a CH53E Super Stallion! They can both haul roughly equal cargo loads, but the CH53E is a bit more “multirole” in that it can SAR, CSAR, troops transport, as well as cargo haul, whereas the CH54 can only really cargo haul.

 

ED, if you see this, please, at least consider, a CH53E Super Stallion. While it may not have an offensive weapons available to the pilot(s), there’s a plethora of tasks within the DCS environment that the Stallion could accomplish.

[MAXsenna]

I agree. There's just something about the "Skycrane" for me. 

Of course the Super Stallion would be awesome as well. And if we get Nam, we just need the "Jolly Green Giant".

Sea King is another favourite of mine if we head out to sea... 

[Rick50]

CH-53 would help populate the USMC for DCS. On the other hand, it's not used by many other nations, Israel and Germany... oh and the Mexican Navy too. But that's it.

The CH-47 doesn't help the Marines for DCS... but it's operated all over the world for decades by 28 nations. Iconic. 

[RG2021]

1 hour ago, Rick50 said:

CH-53 would help populate the USMC for DCS. On the other hand, it's not used by many other nations, Israel and Germany... oh and the Mexican Navy too. But that's it.

The CH-47 doesn't help the Marines for DCS... but it's operated all over the world for decades by 28 nations. Iconic.

True, the 47 and 53 are both very iconic, and both would make for pretty sweet modules. I’d personally prefer a 53, but I’d take a 47!

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

 

I agree. There's just something about the "Skycrane" for me. 

Of course the Super Stallion would be awesome as well. And if we get Nam, we just need the "Jolly Green Giant".

Sea King is another favourite of mine if we head out to sea... 

 

A Sea King would also be awesome! Only if it was the British, Westland version. The Westland Sea King had a wide array of extremely advanced tech and could also use the Exocet and Sea Eagle anti-ship missiles! That would also be awesome.

[Callsign112]

14 hours ago, RG2021 said:

Does anyone see the potential in cargo/heavy-lift helicopters?

 

I’ve heard that ED is planning to/is currently making a cargo plane. So, I figured, with cargo-running being a somewhat boring way of flying, cargo helicopters would be much more interesting. While you’re still hauling cargo, you also have the interesting and fun challenge of wrangling a powerful helicopter.

 

Of course, cargo planes can carry significantly heavier loads and they do have a place in DCS, with the maps being massive. However, for smaller loads, cargo helicopters would be significantly more interesting and incentivizing to fly.

 

For example, a CH-54 Tarhe or CH-53E Super Stallion could never dream of carrying as much weight as merely a C-130, but in a sim, they would be vastly more interesting. You need to slow to a hover, skillfully hold the hover, and hook up to whatever heavy load you’re lifting. Also, you can do it wherever you want!

 

I think that in addition to the C-130 (if it is indeed becoming a module), we should also get a heavy-lift helicopter for smaller, but more interesting missions.

 

Here’s a list of super cool and very fitting aircraft for the job:

CH53E Super Stallion

CH47 Chinook

CH54 Tarhe (“Sky Crane”)

Mi-6   (downside: large, 5-6 man crew)

Mi-26 (downside: large, 5-6 man crew)

 

Helicopters that are interesting and worthy, but not good as the NEXT helicopter:
UH-60

AH-1

 

The Tarhe, Chinook, and Stallion are all great options, and I’d argue better options than the Mil duo. With a small crew while still packing huge lifting muscles, they’d be ideal for the job! Especially the Tarhe with it’s 10,000lbs Daisy Cutter LZ-clearing bomb and huge muscles!

@NineLine

Sorry to bother you, buuuut…

 

I see a huge potential. And part of that potential would be to advance/implement better cargo/troop load/unload.

[RG2021]

1 hour ago, Callsign112 said:

I see a huge potential. And part of that potential would be to advance/implement better cargo/troop load/unload.

That’s the spirit! The two most likely candidates for a heavy lift helo in DCS is the Ch47 Chinook and CH53E Super Stallion.

 

Both can lift around 25,000lbs (ish), and both can carry loads of troops. The only real deciding factors between which one would genuinely have to come down to a community vote!

 

Does the community want a super famous and widely used CH-47? Or does the community want a less famous, less widely used, but ship-based CH-53E? I’d rather have the CH-53E, as I like the conventional layout.
 

But whether it’s a CH-47 or CH-53, they would both fit the heavy-lift, somewhat multirole niche that’s missing! Both can have gunners onboard with either miniguns or .50s. If we were to get a Vietnam-era CH-47, we could even get the ACH-47 as a 2nd version. It was equipped with miniguns, grenade launchers, rockets, etc., but had it’s carrying hooks and other lifting equipment removed.

Edited April 17, 2022 by RG2021

[Callsign112]

Since its a wish list, why not make it for both. ED has spent a fair bit of energy in promoting both Army and Navy OP's so there's that.

[ddc196]

CH-46 Sea Knight

[RG2021]

6 minutes ago, ddc196 said:

CH-46 Sea Knight

That would be neat, but the Sea Knight is nowhere near the CH-47 or CH-53 when it comes to lifting capacity. Of course, DCS currently is more suited towards medium-lift, such as the Hip, and some changes would be needed to suit heavy-lift, though I think it would be worth doing a Chinook or Stallion over a Sea Knight. Though the Sea Knight is cool and, I’ll be honest, I completely forgot about it!

[ddc196]

1 minute ago, RG2021 said:

That would be neat, but the Sea Knight is nowhere near the CH-47 or CH-53 when it comes to lifting capacity. Of course, DCS currently is more suited towards medium-lift, such as the Hip, and some changes would be needed to suit heavy-lift, though I think it would be worth doing a Chinook or Stallion over a Sea Knight. Though the Sea Knight is cool and, I’ll be honest, I completely forgot about it!

I'm a Navy guy, I'm partial to Navy stuff. 

[RG2021]

8 minutes ago, ddc196 said:

I'm a Navy guy, I'm partial to Navy stuff. 

Oh don’t get me wrong, I’m on the CH-53’s team! I’m biased to Navy/naval as well! 
 

(Albeit the CH53 is a Marine aircraft…but naval nonetheless.)

[RG2021]

43 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

Since its a wish list, why not make it for both. ED has spent a fair bit of energy in promoting both Army and Navy OP's so there's that.

If we were to get both, it would be quite interesting. Similar to the F-18 + F-16. Similar capabilities but different at the same time. Maybe a modern CH-53 and a Vietnam CH-47?

[Callsign112]

Yeah there would definitely be room for both in DCS.

[IcedVenom]

On 4/17/2022 at 5:47 AM, RG2021 said:

Yeah, I’ve seen loads of people interested in the Mi-6/26, but the biggest problem is the fact that they’ve got massive crews.

 

On the Tarhe, it’s a shame that many people gloss right over it, as it’s an incredible machine. A 47 or 53 would definitely be more appealing to the DCS community, as they have gunners onboard. But I’d settle for a CH53 any day!

 

But also, I know many helicopter pilots in DCS who only play DCS for the realistic helicopter physics, which are far better than any other game on the market. So, that would certainly make the Tarhe a useful and appealing aircraft to them. If they were to make a 53 or a 54, I’d prefer a 54 to be honest, but I’d settle just fine with a 53!

Just to state my own opinion, I would purchase an Mi-6 module. I would also purchase a Kamov-29 and Mi-14.

[Rick50]

 

Huey Cobra TOW, UH-60, CH-47 and/or '53, AH-6 Little Bird or MD-500 Defender TOW...  perhaps a Kiowa Warrior... after all that, I think US helos would be pretty much covered "enough". Ok maybe a Super Cobra or Viper Cobra  too for the Misguided Children*!

 

Russian helos, well, we already have the Mi-8 Hip and '24 Hind, and the Black Shark... so maybe the future could see Mi-28 Havoc, Mi-171 ("Super Hip?" ...uh, sounds too much like a 1970's disco band?). I'm coming around to the idea of Mi-26 for DCS: basically a VTOL C-130 Hercules in capacity, but can move logistics from anywhere to anywhere. Sure, maybe not a full fidellity as it's got a significant crew... but for winning campaigns, say like moving up equipment to make a proper FARP to hold ground and operate from... 

 

I do think at some point there will be some Euro helicopters. Clearly we already have the Gazelle, and we "should" see the MBB BO-105 tank hunter arrive in the next 10 months (I  hope), but after that... maybe the Super Frelon, and NH-90, maybe a EuroTiger ?  Not a guarantee, but we are soon approaching "enough" helos for Russia and USA, after that I'd expect more European fling-wings to see a bit of attention!

*(for those who never heard the term, the US Marine Corp has been sometimes nicknamed "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children"! in a teasing brotherly way!)

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Rick50

[FlankerKiller]

I'm hoping for improved infantry, and a better logistics model. My understanding is the UH-60 is out of the question. Personally I would buy a CH-47, or a CH-53 on day one as DCS stands today. I would also but a C-130 right now if it released. While there are certainly some situations where the Hercules wouldn't be all that boring, I do agree the the big choppers would have more interesting missions. If the dynamic campaign ever happens you could really aid in the fight by bringing up large amounts of ammo, weapons, and troops. You could really make a difference on the battlefield. 

Plus CH-53s are so f#%king cool. The park behind my old shop on a regular basis. I used to love watching them start up when we happened to have some free time. The thing looks like a monster sitting out on the flight line. I was swimming laps out in Japan one time. It was an overcast day and I had just flipped onto my back for some rest. When these two CH-53s dropped out of the cloud cover right above me. Whit their gray against the sky's gray they looked like some kind of massive ethereal creatures. Just an awesome machine. I wish I could have worked on them. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by FlankerKiller

[Rick50]

1 hour ago, FlankerKiller said:

 My understanding is the UH-60 is out of the question.

 

Oh?  I hadn't heard about that, care to expand a little on that?

[MAXsenna]

 
Oh?  I hadn't heard about that, care to expand a little on that?

I think he's referring to Razbam refuting the rumors of they making one.
But the dev of the UH-60L mod states somewhere that they can't make it 3rd party, as it was already "taken" by a 3rd party. So I'm sure we will get it, just not by Razbam.
Other rumours I've seen, I emphasise RUMORS, is that the UH-60L dev is now part of PolyChop. So who knows?
And quite frankly, I always thought PC was going to do it and not Razbam. Seems more natural, unless ED would themselves.

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[LooseSeal]

21 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

unless ED would themselves.
 

I'd love ED to do the UH-60, and different variants thereof (MH-60L, please!). It's the one utility helo I want, with the Chinook a close second.

ED have said there's another helicopter "in the pipeline", and maybe with dynamic campaign coming a focus on modules with a logistics capability could make sense for them?

[FlankerKiller]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I think he's referring to Razbam refuting the rumors of they making one.
But the dev of the UH-60L mod states somewhere that they can't make it 3rd party, as it was already "taken" by a 3rd party. So I'm sure we will get it, just not by Razbam.
Other rumours I've seen, I emphasise RUMORS, is that the UH-60L dev is now part of PolyChop. So who knows?
And quite frankly, I always thought PC was going to do it and not Razbam. Seems more natural, unless ED would themselves.

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Oh god please not Poly Chop. If there was ever a third party that should have it's license revoked it's them. God I hope it's some other team. Preferably one that actually knows how to simulate the flight dynamics of a helicopter. 

[MAXsenna]

Well, if the UH-60L module is anything to go by, I'm actually not so worried. Pretty sure much of the Gazelle's FM issues is the completely borked FFB implementation. But what do I know.
Seems several of the Kiowa SMEs are happy, so again I'm not too worried.

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