More training missions

[DN308]

Sincerely, I would love to have some more training missions.

AAR as a training commented and guided like the other ones

Training mission for each type of ordnance 

Inflight restart training mission

[Yurgon]

You're not wrong! There certainly are some important topics that are not covered in the interactive training missions.

On the other hand, Baltic Dragon and Doughboy cover a lot of these topics in the Iron Flag training campaign with such a level of detail that it made my head buzz. I know, it's a payware campaign, and it also requires the NTTR map, and part 1 hardly even touches on the weapons, but I think you'll find that this campaign is the type of in-depth training that we couldn't expect ED to deliver as part of the A-10C module, just because of the insane amount of work that has gone into the campaign (plus the very active support and bug-fixing that Baltic Dragon provides).

So if you haven't purchased that campaign yet, I highly recommend it, as well as keeping your eyes open for part 2 (which, at this point, is still a fair bit in the future as far as I know, but it's definitely on the roadmap).

[DN308]

Ok, but imagine that a new guy trying to understand and mastering enough a module to enjoy it and « playing » some campaign or mission.

Then, he faces situations that he has not a simple clue, again and again and again.

What a frustrating situation, no?

His only solution would be to pay for a campaign to have a chance to learn (without any guarantee from his point of view)??? Naaaahhh!

Most of guys would says « I would not have purchased that module, I am not able to understand it. I let it apart and I may come back some day on it, or not » (my case with the Apache).

Anyway, so far, I have that campaign and will go for it soon. I just suggest some improvements that would help a lot enjoying the module for the beginner 

[shagrat]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb DN308:

Ok, but imagine that a new guy trying to understand and mastering enough a module to enjoy it and « playing » some campaign or mission.

Then, he faces situations that he has not a simple clue, again and again and again.

What a frustrating situation, no?

His only solution would be to pay for a campaign to have a chance to learn (without any guarantee from his point of view)??? Naaaahhh!

Most of guys would says « I would not have purchased that module, I am not able to understand it. I let it apart and I may come back some day on it, or not » (my case with the Apache).

Anyway, so far, I have that campaign and will go for it soon. I just suggest some improvements that would help a lot enjoying the module for the beginner 

The thing is, people expect to get a basic helicopter/aircraft flight training and a type specific conversion course, amounting to maybe a year of full time (!) training condensed into a couple of training missions, so they can do what a real life pilot takes a year or more to accomplish.

Even if we consider we need only half of the procedural details a pilot needs to know by heart, we still face quite some stuff to learn. And by learning, we talk about RTFM (not just glancing at it) going through the checklists/procedures provided in the manual(s) and maybe write down some stuff you want to remember. Then train(!) that stuff and rehearse it, best in Multiplayer.

A bunch of training missions can only be a part of that process, if you ask me.

 

[DN308]

10 minutes ago, shagrat said:

The thing is, people expect to get a basic helicopter/aircraft flight training and a type specific conversion course, amounting to maybe a year of full time (!) training condensed into a couple of training missions, so they can do what a real life pilot takes a year or more to accomplish.

Even if we consider we need only half of the procedural details a pilot needs to know by heart, we still face quite some stuff to learn. And by learning, we talk about RTFM (not just glancing at it) going through the checklists/procedures provided in the manual(s) and maybe write down some stuff you want to remember. Then train(!) that stuff and rehearse it, best in Multiplayer.

A bunch of training missions can only be a part of that process, if you ask me.

 

RTFM… typically the answer I was afraid to read.

I have some other activities IRL as a job, that many people use to practice as a sport. If I have answered RTFM or whatever the name of the books related to that, the sport would be dead from a long time ago.

Flight sim is a hobby (I would not say game to not be rude). Many people just don’t have time for a year long training with a plane before be able to have fun with.

Anyway. forget my request, I will stay stuck into my ignorance as many other players.

The next answer will be DTFG I guess

[Rudel_chw]

14 minutes ago, DN308 said:

Anyway. forget my request, I will stay stuck into my ignorance as many other players.

This is the wishlist section, you can wish for whatever item you’d like to see in DCS. Don’t let other people’s opinions discourage you 

[MAXsenna]

@DN308 I agree with Rudel. Wish for anything!
And I agree with the lack of training missions, but campaigns like Maple Flag's and Baltic Dragon makes up for it to some degree. Many problems with new modules are that the features are either not implemented or bugged, so some training missions would be redundant future wise.
As for training missions for AAR. As I now master it to some degree, I've come to the conclusion that they would be very hard to do.
The tips I got was, formation flying, formation flying, formation flying. REPEAT!
Which might help if they added them in training missions instead of just quick starts, so the user would actually know how important it is.
Some included training videos of how the perfect alignment/position/what to look for, for each tanker/module would be nice too. But there are of course tons of YTs on this subject.
Cheers!


EDIT: And AAR is a skill that needs to constantly honed and kept and maintained constantly. At least for me. Flying a helicopter is soooooo easy!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[DN308]

AAR is a nightmare for me I must confess. So it would be nice to have some tips from devs. I guess there are some game changers like thing to look at and align for this or this module, or hotas configuration IOT facilitate the action. I can’t stay in formation for long. Every movement on my stick moves my plane for too far away, and my throttle management is not efficient.

 I know I have to practice but starting from total scratch is sometimes exhausting 

[Yurgon]

45 minutes ago, DN308 said:

AAR is a nightmare for me I must confess. So it would be nice to have some tips from devs.

That is a good point of course.

There are very good videos, tutorials, and user-made missions with tons of advice, but the primary spot that new players would look for this is the game's Training menu. After all, we have to remember that only a small percentage of players ever make their way onto these forums, and many new players may also not be aware how much content there is on Youtube.

Then again, an aerial refueling mission might take 30 minutes with explanations and mandatory cockpit setup (Fence out, tuning radio and TACAN, checking remaining fuel, and going over tips and tricks) before the fun even begins. It's certainly a hard topic to cover well, because all newcomers struggle with it. I certainly know that I did for a long time, until it started to click. And on the other hand, I find it pretty discouraging that even some of the more experienced players complain about the jet's pitch-change when the refueling receptacle is opened; apparently no one ever told them to safe the jet before pointing their gun at a multi-million dollar tanker with half a dozen crew members and tons of highly flammable fuel on board...

So yeah, there are definitely some topics to cover when it comes to aerial refueling.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Yurgon

[DN308]

That was my point when I wrote that wish thread.

Youtube, practice missions, etc are nice. However, just like learning how to drive a car or learning how to deal with wind drift when shooting long range, there are a lot of manuals, videos and books. But nothing can replace a coached mission or drill with a senior instructor. I have instructed a lot of FNGs at the range who didn’t understood what they were doing wrong, even after hours of reading, watching videos and practicing by themselves.

 I am a military shooting instructor, sadly not a military pilot. So I still have a lot to learn, and I still wait for a good knowledge before going to even a SP Campaign. I mean, I even go back to training missions when I feel uncomfortable or that I must have missed a point I need before going further in a campaign. So there was my request for some really important aspects of the plane using.

[MAXsenna]

AAR is a nightmare for me I must confess. So it would be nice to have some tips from devs. I guess there are some game changers like thing to look at and align for this or this module, or hotas configuration IOT facilitate the action. I can’t stay in formation for long. Every movement on my stick moves my plane for too far away, and my throttle management is not efficient.
 I know I have to practice but starting from total scratch is sometimes exhausting 

Like I wrote in the other post. Totally forget about AAR until you can formation fly, or you will never make it. A physical throttle is very handy. You have the TM 16K set?
I actually find it easier in helicopters to be honest. The free UH-60L community module might be one of the easier ones of all the modules combined.
But take out your favourite jet, hop in in one of the free flight quickstart missions and find one of the AI transports that are always flying around with or without your radar and practise with them. Go from wing tip to wingtip, and under the belly.
When your confident, advance to one of the AAR missions, but forget about tanking, yet. As you should watch some of the YT videos on where to position and look first.
I actually find the Viper and Eagle easiest, as the tankers have lights on "where to be". But thats just me.
BTW. I used to use my TM16K too, before I switched. The spring is way too ridiculous stiff. So it actually makes it harder. The Warthog is even stiffer, and the Cougar is just stoopid.
I now have a 40Cm extension on my Warthog and the blue spring Sahaj. Feels much better.
AND DON'T GIVE UP! I decided to learn, and spent two hours every day for two weeks, after I was confident with formation flying.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[DN308]

8 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Like I wrote in the other post. Totally forget about AAR until you can formation fly, or you will never make it. A physical throttle is very handy. You have the TM 16K set?
I actually find it easier in helicopters to be honest. The free UH-60L community module might be one of the easier ones of all the modules combined.
But take out your favourite jet, hop in in one of the free flight quickstart missions and find one of the AI transports that are always flying around with or without your radar and practise with them. Go from wing tip to wingtip, and under the belly.
When your confident, advance to one of the AAR missions, but forget about tanking, yet. As you should watch some of the YT videos on where to position and look first.
I actually find the Viper and Eagle easiest, as the tankers have lights on "where to be". But thats just me.
BTW. I used to use my TM16K too, before I switched. The spring is way too ridiculous stiff. So it actually makes it harder. The Warthog is even stiffer, and the Cougar is just stoopid.
I now have a 40Cm extension on my Warthog and the blue spring Sahaj. Feels much better.
AND DON'T GIVE UP! I decided to learn, and spent two hours every day for two weeks, after I was confident with formation flying.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

Actually I have a Warthog. I was on a x55 before but it was too difficult to control for precise flying. My opinion.

 Thanks for your reply and help

[Hammer1-1]

To capitalize on stuff I need to remember in the manual, I just jot down some notes on a notepad and convert them to a kneeboard page. This helps me immensely in VR as I have that info accessed already on demand - certain keyboard functions or how to launch mavericks, how to slave from one sensor to a weapon and so forth, that way I can practice in real time. If theres a system I want to learn, I RTFM and pick/choose what I need out of the manual and then I go to the sim and practice with my newly made kneeboard. Dont get me wrong, theres still a ton of time invested into my kneeboards, but be damned if it doesnt help immensely.

[DN308]

2 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

To capitalize on stuff I need to remember in the manual, I just jot down some notes on a notepad and convert them to a kneeboard page. This helps me immensely in VR as I have that info accessed already on demand - certain keyboard functions or how to launch mavericks, how to slave from one sensor to a weapon and so forth, that way I can practice in real time. If theres a system I want to learn, I RTFM and pick/choose what I need out of the manual and then I go to the sim and practice with my newly made kneeboard. Dont get me wrong, theres still a ton of time invested into my kneeboards, but be damned if it doesnt help immensely.

I already made that kind of tools but thanks.

What I should confess is that my English understanding and the ton of acronyms make me sometimes a little puzzled. See and do helps me a lot more

[shagrat]

Am 23.4.2022 um 10:34 schrieb DN308:

RTFM… typically the answer I was afraid to read.

I have some other activities IRL as a job, that many people use to practice as a sport. If I have answered RTFM or whatever the name of the books related to that, the sport would be dead from a long time ago.

Flight sim is a hobby (I would not say game to not be rude). Many people just don’t have time for a year long training with a plane before be able to have fun with.

Anyway. forget my request, I will stay stuck into my ignorance as many other players.

The next answer will be DTFG I guess

I didn't just say "RTFM", neither was it meant in a condescending way.

Matter of fact, it is part of llthe learning process, but it is not enough on its own, to only glance at the manual, do a couple training missions and expect to fly a study sim level DCS module (especially the modern ones) mission ready.

We already have the advantage, that we can shave off about a third of the stuff a pilot needs to learn, as it is not really required for a "game". Still there is a lot of complexity to a modern combat aircraft, that requires more than just a set of training missions.

I have the same problem with real life, a job and a family. The only thing you can do is to see the "learning process" as part of the game. If you see the learning as a "requirement to grind through" to get to play the game, you will get frustrated. If you find joy in the learning process and elation, when you successfully got through learning a new system, managed to do a navigation training and arrive near your intended airbase, employ a weapon system without going through the written notes for the first time, or simply when it "clicks" when flying a new airframe and your muscle memory does its job.

If that is only a nuisance, it's not fun to learn a DCS module and gets you frustrated quickly (done that, been there).

That does not mean you can't just take a module for a ride and just try to make sh.t go boom, once in a while... But from my experience over most of the last two decades it is as much about finding joy in learning these things, as in using them in a simulated combat mission.

The biggest problem is, neither RTFM, nor training missions, or YouTube videos will get you there on their own. It is a combination of reading/understanding how it works, watching others implementing it and then practicing it, if possible with others, so you can share knowledge and tips.

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

[shagrat]

Am 23.4.2022 um 12:40 schrieb DN308:

AAR is a nightmare for me I must confess. So it would be nice to have some tips from devs. I guess there are some game changers like thing to look at and align for this or this module, or hotas configuration IOT facilitate the action. I can’t stay in formation for long. Every movement on my stick moves my plane for too far away, and my throttle management is not efficient.

 I know I have to practice but starting from total scratch is sometimes exhausting 

Same here. Keep in mind, AAR in a simulation where the radios and your voice are operated through a keyboard menu, you don't have peripheral vision, no feeling for acceleration/slip movement and can't chat with the boom operator or get at least a heads up to an upcoming turn etc. is way more difficult than IRL. And IRL it is one of the hardest thing a military pilot needs to learn.

Out only real advantagess are a comfy chair, a pause option and the fact we won't die if we mess up.

I made a little formation training mission for the F/A-18C that helps to train station keeping, and it seems to do a pretty good job in the limits of the DCS mission editor (used aerobatics to have less aggressive turns etc. instead of the crazy turns the AI usually does).

You may try switching the F/A-18C for another aircraft, as long as the speeds match and you don't change anything other, than the aircraft.

I guess an A-10 may struggle with the speed, but the F-16, M2000C etc. should be ok.

I still struggle with the tanker, but it definitely helped me to improve my station keeping in formation.

Link to the user files:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3317763/

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by shagrat

[DN308]

Actually, I’ve spent 45 mn on a specific AAR’s mission with the HOG yesterday.

 I succeeded in plugging in 12 times but my personal record is 47seconds taking fuel…

Not so much but way better than my usual 5 seconds…

But I should have burnt more fuel than received in this mission… Improving but still frustrating and unsatisfactory 

[MAXsenna]

Actually, I’ve spent 45 mn on a specific AAR’s mission with the HOG yesterday.
 I succeeded in plugging in 12 times but my personal record is 47seconds taking fuel…
Not so much but way better than my usual 5 seconds…
But I should have burnt more fuel than received in this mission… Improving but still frustrating and unsatisfactory 

I've yet to try to refuel in the Hog.
But I had my first full non-disconnected session in the Viper yesterday!
Forgot to tape it, and since I use VAICOM tracks are useless.

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[DN308]

Good job

bit what is so hard on the HOG process…?

[MAXsenna]

Good job
bit what is so hard on the HOG process…?

Quite honestly, you really inspired me!
So I downloaded an AAR mission for the Hog yesterday, and got to it. Spend an hour before I realised I forgot to open the receptical!
Solving that, I immediately got plugged and disconnected, continued another 20 minutes without connecting again. So I headed for YT and learned you had to close and reopen the receptical after a disconnect, noticed the lights up to the right and learned what the colors on the boom means. There are no default keystrokes for the "door", so no VoiceAttack then. Binded a joystick on my right, uncomfortable? Yes!
Anyway, went back and tried again, until I got some PIO and killed us all.
But went at it again as the first thing I did this morning. Four, five disconnects and then transfer complete in about 20 minutes. Had to reset to pre-contact many times as well. But yeah! Getting there!
What's hard for me is seeing the tanker as my FOV is way forward, so I had to zoom out a little. That was better. Resetting the slot is a biatch as I have to swap hands and let go of the throttle. I cannot see the lights under the tanker at all when I get close to the boom. So it's really important to see the tanker. But if I manage to have one eye on the tanker, on sort of see the colors on the boom, then it is easier.
The Viper is sooo easy compared.
Haven't done the Eagle in a while, so I tried it again. No issues really, but compared to the Viper it's also really hard to see the lights, but I sort of know now how to position my self in relation to the tanker, so had like three disconnects before full tanks.
If I could give myself another advice before I started this.
Sit comfortably! No throttle or sticks on the desk in front of you. Make sure the stick height is so you can rest your arm or hand on your right lap. Or have an armrest for your right arm if you have a side stick.
Same goes for the throttle. Make sure the throttle is off to your left in a correct hight, so you can use your arm correctly.
Cheers!

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[Hammer1-1]

Pro trick for AAR in the hog - when you disconnect by accident, hit the nosewheel steering button to recycle the refueling receptacle. You wont be able to refuel without doing so.

[MAXsenna]

Pro trick for AAR in the hog - when you disconnect by accident, hit the nosewheel steering button to recycle the refueling receptacle. You wont be able to refuel without doing so.

THANK YOU!!!!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Mogster]

Completely agree with the OP.

The included training missions are probably most new users gateway into DCS and create that first impression. After buying a new, expensive, module it’s not unreasonable to find a set of working, fun, training missions. Razbam has a great set of training missions for the Harrier and Mirage, very comprehensive. The current state of the A10C II training missions makes me despair.