WinWing Orion 2 is a Disaster

[paschon]

I got my WinWing Orion 2 yesterday and this ist what I experienced.

 

The Engine OFF button is not working properly. It only works if you push the throttle with a force to the last bit of the end.

I think the sounds of moving the throttle with the new fingerlift design speaks for its self. 

The force to overcome the afterburner is differently on the left and right throttle. You need double the force on the left throttle to overcome the AB detend.

The fingerlifts are made of plastic and they feel really cheap. In addition they are way to low. You need to change your grip to grab them, what makes them unusable for AB detend.

 

If you increase the friction you are not able to move the throttle freely in one smooth motion. This makes it impossible to make small corrections. So you are forced to use low friction which makes the heavy FA18 throttle fall down and not staying in position.

 

 

[Bwaze]

I have ordered finger lift kit for my first version of Orion throttle / F18 grips. I now have some reservations, before I have even gotten it. 

 

1. The detent mechanism between the throttle levers is glued with double sided tape onto the base in version for Orion V1. No, really, it's in the PDF installation guide in Winwing store. And it seems you can't install F-16 throttle grip with it in place - which is a detail Winwing should communicate to buyers of their "modular" system. 

 

2. You get an adjustable detent system with the finger lift kit, but the removal of old detent system from first version of Orion throttle base was apparently seen as too complicated, so you will have two detent pairs - old push through detents and new detents that are push through in afterburner and strictly finger lift at idle / off. Of course that is messy - it's a mess if they are not aligned (where am I, at old or new afterburner detent?), and by aligning them you loose the whole reason for buying adjustable detents, and also force of overcoming the detent will ad up! 

 

3. Old throttle grip mounting plates were solid aluminium. And praised for offering a really solid experience - compared to for instance bendable Thrustmaster Warthog throttle grips. New ones with finger lift mechanism are plastic. And of course not as solid any more. 

... 

 

Finger Lift KIT for Orion(1st Gen) is only $50. But adding shipping (fortunately only $19), adding 22% of VAT to both, and some extra customs fees it will be closer to $100...

[MartinVoy]

I feel the same about friction system. I feel lucky to have F16 one, so the upper rail supports it a bit against falling down. But without it, it would be either falling down or hard to make precise moves. Viper handle works great. The base - I was disappointed that new version Orion2 is almost full plastic.  

[Dragon1-1]

FYI, the OFF button works just fine with the detents, but you have to recalibrate the throttle in SimAppPro. Basically, set the axis to end at the aft detent. It'll go into OFF when you move the throttles past that point.

There's indeed some stiction (gonna fiddle with it more once I put together the mounts I'm making), but I don't have the problem with one throttle requiring more force to put into AB than the other, they feel the same to me, although that might differ between units. We'll see once I get comfortable enough to try AAR with it. It would've been nice if the thing was metal and not plastic, but I've flow with all-plastic CH gear for damn near all my life, so I don't mind.

[Taderaz]

thank you paschon,

I'm sorry for you that it went like this  and I hope that Winwing support will contact you to offer a solution .
Based on your post I was able to reconsider my decision for the Orion 2 Throttle as it was still on pre-order.

[EXPENDTripwire]

I've just received my preorder email and about to pull the trigger - but that video posted by Paschon really looks worrying. Anyone else that has received one able to chime in - Are they all like this or is this an unlucky case because that doesn't look like a great design?

[Dragon1-1]

I have no problem with the detent (after I calibrated it properly), nor with forces on the AB detent, or with how the fingerlifts sound when moving against the detent (mine don't sound like in his video). Yes, the finger lifts are not the most ergonomic, but then, you only need them for startup and shutdown. 

It seems his particular unit was bad. I'm not saying the throttle design is perfect, but I like it. 

[CaptHawk]

On 5/4/2022 at 5:03 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

I have no problem with the detent (after I calibrated it properly), nor with forces on the AB detent, or with how the fingerlifts sound when moving against the detent (mine don't sound like in his video). Yes, the finger lifts are not the most ergonomic, but then, you only need them for startup and shutdown. 

It seems his particular unit was bad. I'm not saying the throttle design is perfect, but I like it. 

No problems what so ever either. No noise at all...tension set just right. After Calibrating all is good. I have long fingers so the Lifts don't bother me at all. Did try one of cloud templates for the F18 but some of the assignments were backwards. Like Gear up/down  Easier just to make my own which I did. 

[MadKreator]

My Orion 1 needed a drop of oil on the detent balls in the base, one side was very tough to move past the detents. Lubed them up and now they are noticeable but very smooth to push past. Calibrate with software at least once for proper end points. The Orion 1 also has the aft/ off switches at the very far end of travel, not when it passes the aft detent. If you run the software while using it, i believe you could setup the position you want it to activate, if you don’t use the software in real time, I think you will be stuck using the switches. I just chose not to use the app at all because I noticed a bit of performance hit from the line it writes in the export.lua.  

Edited May 5, 2022 by MadKreator

[Dragon1-1]

This is about Orion 2, which removed all the elements you speak of.  There's no ball detents and no physical idle/off switches. The noise in question would come from plastic sliding over plastic, but my throttle is almost perfectly silent when that happens. 

[Brother_Leb]

@EXPENDTripwireSimilar to other folks with an Orion 2, mine is working just fine so far. No noises like in the video. It's not perfectly silent, but there's only a slight clicking noise. I haven't noticed any of the creaking sounds you can hear in his video, but I do wonder if a bit of grease might alleviate that. I'm still fine-tuning my AB calibration, etc. but the hardware works as expected. As @Dragon 1-1 said, it's not perfect, but I'm happy with it so far.

I do feel bad for the OP. It seems like those finger lift kits would be easy to produce. Hopefully WW does a make-good and sends him a new one.

One other note, as others have noticed with both Orion 1 and 2, one throttle arm (the left one for me) was scraping ever so slightly right out of the box and this was exacerbated by the finger lift kit. It was a simple matter of adjusting a few bolts here and there to solve this, however. So, it's not a defect but it is a known issue.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Brother_Leb

[Phantom711]

Hey...

 

Orion2 F/A-18 throttle owner since last week. Everything fine...works as advertised.

 

the fingerlifts: they are made of plastic...so what? I don`t see what they could do better if they were made of metal. Especially since they are used like (maximum) 2 times during a flight. 

In the real aircraft you don`t need the fingerlifts for AB selection during flight, but only when you are hooked up on the catapult (launch bar extended). For the same reasons I also don`t mind the position of the fingerlifts. During start-up and shut down I have the time to reach "down" there.

Anyways...good luck to the OP with fixing his throttle or getting a replacement.

[soulindk]

I received my Orion 2 HOTAS earlier this week and am overly happy with it. That being said, the right throttle does seem to just "fall" into AB with the slightest of touch compared to the left throttle. I have been able to mitigate this by having the majority of my hand on the right throttle handle, but not so much that I can't manipulate the buttons. No other creaking or other weird noises fortunately.

 

Edit: a right AND a left.

Edited May 7, 2022 by soulindk

[CaptHawk]

1 hour ago, soulindk said:

I received my Orion 2 HOTAS earlier this week and am overly happy with it. That being said, the right throttle does seem to just "fall" into AB with the slightest of touch compared to the left throttle. I have been able to mitigate this by having the majority of my hand on the right throttle handle, but not so much that I can't manipulate the buttons. No other creaking or other weird noises fortunately.

 

Edit: a right AND a left.

 

And you adjusted the individual tension screws?

[soulindk]

Yep. The tension/friction is perfect with a slight adjustment. Just enough so that they don't fall and stay right where I put them. But when I go to the AB detent, the left throttle will easily move into AB vs the right. But like I mentioned above, it's such a small thing and I'm able to manage.

[Dragon1-1]

It is strange, since the force it has to overcome comes from entirely from the finger lifts, not from friction. Do your fingerlift springs feel the same? They have to extend the same amount for both throttles. Do remember that the right throttle is taller, so you have more leverage. At the same time, the right throttle is quite a bit heavier (it's a big hunk of metal, after all), giving it more inertia. Try pushing them both from standstill at the same point on the throttle body, to make sure it's not just a subjective feeling. Of course, in the end it's the feeling that matters, but a difference there should be expected, given the different shape of the throttles and asymmetrical geometry of your hand. 

[soulindk]

Oh yea, I know the "issue" stems from the finger-lift mechanism. I haven't looked at it closely yet since I was too excited when I got it and have just been learning the modules. But my thoughts are that the screw or rivet that holds the two pieces together in the mechanism is loose compared to the left. They feel the same when I use the finger lifts and I didn't see any major differences in the springs or the looks of the nub or whatever you call it that slides along the guides.

[paschon]

Update from my side.

Winwing told me to loosen the screws of the lift mechanics. After using the divice for a few hours and loosen the screw the noise stopped for now.

No solution for the sporadically working "off" button.

 

Am 30.4.2022 um 14:48 schrieb MartinVoy:

I feel the same about friction system. I feel lucky to have F16 one, so the upper rail supports it a bit against falling down. But without it, it would be either falling down or hard to make precise moves. Viper handle works great. The base - I was disappointed that new version Orion2 is almost full plastic.  

I was disappointed aswell. because as i remember the orion 1 base was 95% metall. And this is what i preordered.

 

Am 2.5.2022 um 12:16 schrieb Dragon1-1:

FYI, the OFF button works just fine with the detents, but you have to recalibrate the throttle in SimAppPro. Basically, set the axis to end at the aft detent. It'll go into OFF when you move the throttles past that point.

There's indeed some stiction (gonna fiddle with it more once I put together the mounts I'm making), but I don't have the problem with one throttle requiring more force to put into AB than the other, they feel the same to me, although that might differ between units. We'll see once I get comfortable enough to try AAR with it. It would've been nice if the thing was metal and not plastic, but I've flow with all-plastic CH gear for damn near all my life, so I don't mind.

calibrating the throttle has no impact on "off" and "idle" buttons. because they are buttons. there is no sensor registrating movement between idle and off.

I think the different forces required to push over AB detend came with the different thigthening of the lift mechanic screws.

 

Am 2.5.2022 um 12:31 schrieb Taderaz:

thank you paschon,

I'm sorry for you that it went like this  and I hope that Winwing support will contact you to offer a solution .
Based on your post I was able to reconsider my decision for the Orion 2 Throttle as it was still on pre-order.

Many other people reporting that they have no problems. The thing is. If you want a replica, there is no other way as going for winwing. Every other thing is working fine at the moment. I have around 30h played untill now with the orion2

But there is a weird function. If you turn off your PC, the backgroundlights continuou to shine. you have to unplug it from the USB port.

Am 8.5.2022 um 00:53 schrieb soulindk:

I received my Orion 2 HOTAS earlier this week and am overly happy with it. That being said, the right throttle does seem to just "fall" into AB with the slightest of touch compared to the left throttle. I have been able to mitigate this by having the majority of my hand on the right throttle handle, but not so much that I can't manipulate the buttons. No other creaking or other weird noises fortunately.

 

Edit: a right AND a left.

 

Try to thigthen the big allen screw.  

[Dragon1-1]

43 minutes ago, paschon said:

Many other people reporting that they have no problems. The thing is. If you want a replica, there is no other way as going for winwing. Every other thing is working fine at the moment. I have around 30h played untill now with the orion2

If you want a replica, you shouldn't be going with Orion, the Taurus/Libra combo is much closer. Although, there's the thing called OpenHornet, which is an open source simpit, complete with a stick gimbal and a proper throttle. It takes lots of money and manpower to make, though. Currently there's no custom grip nor pedals (particularly a problem since there are no proper replica pedals on market), but there might be someday. Orion is great as a generic HOTAS (which is what I bought it for), but replica it ain't. 

39 minutes ago, paschon said:

calibrating the throttle has no impact on "off" and "idle" buttons. because they are buttons. there is no sensor registrating movement between idle and off.

OK, I've checked it, and they indeed trip only after bumping the throttle against the aft stop. I don't have your issue, though, simply pulling them all the way back to the stops hits both buttons. 

 

[Topo]

12 hours ago, paschon said:

But there is a weird function. If you turn off your PC, the backgroundlights continuou to shine. you have to unplug it from the USB port.

There isn't a bios setting to turn off power to usb ports when you turn off your pc? 

[Taderaz]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Dragon1-1:

If you want a replica, you shouldn't be going with Orion, the Taurus/Libra combo is much closer. ...

 

This. I was already undecided before and then decided for the Orion 2 for obvious monetary reasons. But since I keep reading something less positive about the Orion 2 in terms of workmanship (a lot of plastic) and other minor details, I canceled the pre-order and now pre-ordered the Taurus. Well, that probably doubled my waiting time now but it's worth it to me. This is a purely personal decision which is based on my gut feeling.

I am also very satisfied with the workmanship of my Libra joystick. The FA-18 stick is very good and the F-16 stick I would only have to criticize the quality of the EX attachment which feels cheap and the switches build in there imho do not have the same quality as on the stick itself. 

Ultimately, everything is whining at a high level, but you must not lose sight of the fact that the stuff costs a lot of money.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Taderaz

[Dragon1-1]

The plastic isn't so bad, but if you can get the Taurus, it's probably a superior choice, just because it's so much bigger and has more switches. Me, I have limited space and budget, so I'm happy with the Orion 2. My only real complaint so far is that the system status light keeps flashing, which is annoying, and I can't figure out how to make it stop doing this.

[CaptHawk]

7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The plastic isn't so bad, but if you can get the Taurus, it's probably a superior choice, just because it's so much bigger and has more switches. Me, I have limited space and budget, so I'm happy with the Orion 2. My only real complaint so far is that the system status light keeps flashing, which is annoying, and I can't figure out how to make it stop doing this.

Yeh, wish you could re assign the status light to indicate for instance bingo fuel, then I wouldn't mind it so much. As for the plastic base, not cheap at all, lighter maybe but I can't foresee any issues with the base being plastic.

Edited May 12, 2022 by CaptHawk

[Dragon1-1]

I'd be fine if it just stopped flashing, having it indicate anything would mean leaving SimAppPro open, and it's a huge performance hog, so I don't do it. Not that I'd be able to see the blasted thing in VR, anyway.

[Brother_Leb]

As I've said before, overall I'm quite happy with Orion 2, etc. One gripe I do have, however, is the rotary knobs/switches. Near as I can tell, you can only assign one to actually be a rotary knob at a time in SimApp Pro because they all assign to the same axis (Rz). I'd love to be proven wrong about this and I'm far from an expert, but it seems like you have to choose 1 of the 3 to work as as rotary and the other two are just switches. Is that true?