Varjo Aero: Общее руководство для новых владельцев

[dburne]

My main issue with Motion Smoothing is the hit on performance it carries with it. Kind of defeats the purpose of it. Well that is number 1 issue for me followed by artifacting being #2. The artifacting seems a little better but the hit on performance seems about the same to me. I am sure it would be better with a more up to date CPU than my 9900k but I am not going down that road till around 1st of next year.

[motoadve]

41 minutes ago, dburne said:

My main issue with Motion Smoothing is the hit on performance it carries with it. Kind of defeats the purpose of it. Well that is number 1 issue for me followed by artifacting being #2. The artifacting seems a little better but the hit on performance seems about the same to me. I am sure it would be better with a more up to date CPU than my 9900k but I am not going down that road till around 1st of next year.

Agree i9 10900K, with 4090 hit on performance is terrible, also I cant have the artifacts of wings flapping when dogfighting.

[zildac]

Yup, I see a big hit with MR enabled where I could happily maintain 70+ FPS MR is dropping to below 45. I do think some of it has to do with the frame time spikes in DCS as I do not see any issues in FS2020. So I think it is a DCS issue as opposed to an inherent limitation of the Varjo implementation of MR.

[Supmua]

It's interesting to see people having issues with MS, but on my end It's quite good and I really don't have any stuttering issues as long as I can maintain 45 fps--and it's not that hard to maintain 45 fps with high-end PC setup if you don't go too crazy on the settings.

That aside, I just plugged my PSVR2 headset into the Aero's Link box USB input and it shows up as a 2nd PC monitor.  The headset operates directly in playstation cinema mode rather than VR, and OLED colors look superb with deep blacks and saturated colors although the resolution is no match for the Aero plus mura is more apparent.  I can even adjust gamma, brightness, etc. via NVDIA's control panel.  Audio output also works.  That's just crazy, which means people may be able to mod this thing to work with PCVR in the future.

[zildac]

I get far better performance with the ST EXE and MR. I'm using TTI Syria which is heavy. Using the MT EXE and MR I see drops to 23 FPS. With it off I never see below 70 FPS. So I really think the issue is a DCS one as this is not the case using MR in FS.

[Pikas62]

34 minutes ago, Supmua said:

That aside, I just plugged my PSVR2 headset into the Aero's Link box USB input and it shows up as a 2nd PC monitor.  The headset operates directly in playstation cinema mode rather than VR, and OLED colors look superb with deep blacks and saturated colors although the resolution is no match for the Aero plus mura is more apparent.  I can even adjust gamma, brightness, etc. via NVDIA's control panel.  Audio output also works.  That's just crazy, which means people may be able to mod this thing to work with PCVR in the future.

 

Wow - good news!

[javelina1]

3 hours ago, Supmua said:

It's interesting to see people having issues with MS, but on my end It's quite good and I really don't have any stuttering issues as long as I can maintain 45 fps--and it's not that hard to maintain 45 fps with high-end PC setup if you don't go too crazy on the settings.

That aside, I just plugged my PSVR2 headset into the Aero's Link box USB input and it shows up as a 2nd PC monitor.  The headset operates directly in playstation cinema mode rather than VR, and OLED colors look superb with deep blacks and saturated colors although the resolution is no match for the Aero plus mura is more apparent.  I can even adjust gamma, brightness, etc. via NVDIA's control panel.  Audio output also works.  That's just crazy, which means people may be able to mod this thing to work with PCVR in the future.

that is cool!  (been enjoying my PSVR2, when not flying)

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, zildac said:

I get far better performance with the ST EXE and MR. I'm using TTI Syria which is heavy. Using the MT EXE and MR I see drops to 23 FPS. With it off I never see below 70 FPS. So I really think the issue is a DCS one as this is not the case using MR in FS.

Using motion smoothing requires a lot of extra power, so don't expect the same performance with non-MS and some settings need to be lowered.  People that report good MS in MSFS are usually running at 30 fps, which is no go for DCS.  For me 45 fps is minimum.  I have to try Inferno Syria to see, been running Rising Squall campaign which can also be graphically intense and Auto+MS is not too bad (although I do get much better performance from using no V-sync).

9 minutes ago, javelina1 said:

that is cool!  (been enjoying my PSVR2, when not flying)

Yes, it's my go to headset now due to simplicity for general gaming/VR exercise when I'm not doing sims.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Supmua said:

It's interesting to see people having issues with MS, but on my end It's quite good and I really don't have any stuttering issues as long as I can maintain 45 fps--and it's not that hard to maintain 45 fps with high-end PC setup if you don't go too crazy on the settings.

That aside, I just plugged my PSVR2 headset into the Aero's Link box USB input and it shows up as a 2nd PC monitor.  The headset operates directly in playstation cinema mode rather than VR, and OLED colors look superb with deep blacks and saturated colors although the resolution is no match for the Aero plus mura is more apparent.  I can even adjust gamma, brightness, etc. via NVDIA's control panel.  Audio output also works.  That's just crazy, which means people may be able to mod this thing to work with PCVR in the future.

 

There again the difference may well be in CPU department. Yes I am running a 4090 GPU but an older i9 9900k CPU with a Z390 MB. Which kind of goes against what Motion Smoothing's purpose is - to get good enough performance at lower frame rates. In my case Varjo's current Motion Smoothing is responsible for much lower framerates resulting in an unpleasant experience.

With my current graphics settings in DCS I do much better having Motion Smoothing off. As mentioned perhaps that will change after I upgrade MB and CPU around first of year. As good as I have it looking and running now I ain't giving up any of my graphics.

Edited March 14, 2023 by dburne

[motoadve]

Does anyone here has a 4090 with a 13900K processor?

I wonder if DCS runs smooth with this combo in the Varjo

[Supmua]

Turning off Bloom effect in DSC setting/VR tab shaves off another 0.5 ms in GPU frametime.  So, with this plus running at PD 0.9, fixed foveation, flat terrain shadows (I still use high overall shadows as the cockpit looks superb with it), my GPU frametime drops by at least 3.5 ms and this is substantial.  Overall I'm seeing very good performance uplift with the latest DCS beta, both in ST and MT builds.  For example, F16 Syria free flight is pretty much constant 90 fps for me now with MT, and mostly 90 fps in ST (without Vsync)--this was never possible in previous builds.

The new NVIDIA driver 531.29 is also out, this update supposedly fixes high CPU usage issues that some people have.

46 minutes ago, motoadve said:

Does anyone here has a 4090 with a 13900K processor?

I wonder if DCS runs smooth with this combo in the Varjo

Plenty of 4090/13900K people on Varjo discord.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

There again the difference may well be in CPU department. Yes I am running a 4090 GPU but an older i9 9900k CPU with a Z390 MB. Which kind of goes against what Motion Smoothing's purpose is - to get good enough performance at lower frame rates. In my case Varjo's current Motion Smoothing is responsible for much lower framerates resulting in an unpleasant experience.

With my current graphics settings in DCS I do much better having Motion Smoothing off. As mentioned perhaps that will change after I upgrade MB and CPU around first of year. As good as I have it looking and running now I ain't giving up any of my graphics.

 

It all comes down to finding the right settings or modes for what you have.  I think motion smoothing only works well with topshelf CPU and GPU.  It's good but still not perfect with my setup, but may be better for people with stronger CPU such as 13900K or the latest AMD X3D series.  But as far as artifacts elimination is concerned providing that you can maintain constant fps, Varjo did a good job with it.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Supmua

[zildac]

41 minutes ago, Supmua said:

It all comes down to finding the right settings or modes for what you have.  I think motion smoothing only works well with topshelf CPU and GPU.  It's good but still not perfect with my setup, but may be better for people with stronger CPU such as 13900K or the latest AMD X3D series.  But as far as artifacts elimination is concerned providing that you can maintain constant fps, Varjo did a good job with it.

 

Agreed, but, 12900K and 4090 shouldn't see the spike issues. Especially when I can happily hold 70 FPS + all day. Again, it is likely just down to the MT build being in its infancy. I don't think it's a Varjo issue. And for FS2020 I always lock at 45 with MR and Turbo on, runs great, but sends me to sleep

Edited March 14, 2023 by zildac

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, zildac said:

Agreed, but, 12900K and 4090 shouldn't see the spike issues. Especially when I can happily hold 70 FPS + all day. Again, it is likely just down to the MT build being in its infancy. I don't think it's a Varjo issue. And for FS2020 I always lock at 45 with MR and Turbo on, runs great, but sends me to sleep

 

If you really want to fine tune your settings I recommend Steam OpenXR  mode because you can run fpsVR and see everything.  Having constant graph tracings of both CPU and GPU frametimes, as well as real time GPU/CPU usage per core, temp, RAM etc. right in the same pop-up window is very helpful.  When you have a drop frame you can see exactly what's going on with the CPU/GPU/memory/temp, etc.

There's a few issues with Steam OpenXR that I found.  OXRTK's Turbo mode in Steam OpenXR causes persistent CPU and GPU FT spikes at regular intervals and this will tank performance, causing stutters, and should be disabled (no problem in Varjo OpenXR mode).  XRnecksafer also causes DCS crash in Steam OpenXR, even when it's not running and should be uninstalled.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Supmua

[Slick Twitchy]

I have the 13900K and 4090 (both slightly overclocked-but nothing huge)- everything runs really well. Can't max DCS out, but still very smooth and beautiful. It can take some tweaking, but it runs super well.

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Slick Twitchy said:

I have the 13900K and 4090 (both slightly overclocked-but nothing huge)- everything runs really well. Can't max DCS out, but still very smooth and beautiful. It can take some tweaking, but it runs super well.

Thanks for the confirmation.  The latest DCS beta also runs really well on my system, the best it's ever been in a long time.

Motion smoothing option incurs around 2.5-3.0 ms CPU FT and 1.0 ms GPU FT increase according to what I've seen so far with fpsVR.  So if you plan to use this option definitely need to reduce settings appropriately to accommodate the overhead which may also be different if your setup is different from mine.  I do notice inappropriate CPU FT spikes in busy missions especially on an airfield or carrier, but very rare and only with fast head turning.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Supmua

[Slick Twitchy]

Thanks always looking for your posts for concise instructions.

I'm presently bogged down into trying to Get Open XR toolkit working again with the Varjo Update-sudden loss of ability to use it-when disabled via checkboxes below OpenXR main screen  (or whatever-but NOT safemode) DCS works great. When enabled, the initial  DCS loading screen is invisible, but still affects cursor movements inside the area where the load screen usually appears. WEIRD. 

Got it sorted. I had to reinstall mbuccia's wrapper into the Varjo folder.....

Also to reiterate looks like "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR  --force_enable_VR- extensions are no longer needed...but may have something to do with my issues.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Slick Twitchy

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Slick Twitchy said:

Thanks always looking for your posts for concise instructions.

I'm presently bogged down into trying to Get Open XR toolkit working again with the Varjo Update-sudden loss of ability to use it-when disabled via checkboxes below OpenXR main screen  (or whatever-but NOT safemode) DCS works great. When enabled, the initial  DCS loading screen is invisible, but still affects cursor movements inside the area where the load screen usually appears. WEIRD. 

Also to reiterate looks like "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR  --force_enable_VR- extensions are no longer needed...but may have something to do with my issues.

OXRTK can glitch out with disappearance of pop up window and sometimes you need to delete its registry via regedit before you can reset it.  To do this use regedit and go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\software\ and delete the whole OpenXR toolkit entry (right mouse click and delete).

I run DCS mt straight from the app now, have it pinned on my taskbar, no command line needed.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Supmua

[fastf1nger]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb motoadve:

Does anyone here has a 4090 with a 13900K processor?

I wonder if DCS runs smooth with this combo in the Varjo

I´ve got this combo, runs very smooth with and without the new MT.
Me personally, i don´t see much of a difference with MT enabled, also didn´t try motion smoothing
because i never felt the need for it. The only taxing map is Marianas where i see some stuttering when
looking left or right, but i can live with that until motion smoothing, MT etc. gets perfected

I should mention that every slider is maxed out in DCS because i love eye-candy graphics. Nothinge else
installed. Beside the DCS.exe, at the same time the only running programs are the Varjo Base, Simracing Studio
because of my DOFReality H6. No taxing processes running in the background......

[GunSlingerOZ]

I dread

4 hours ago, fastf1nger said:

I´ve got this combo, runs very smooth with and without the new MT.
Me personally, i don´t see much of a difference with MT enabled, also didn´t try motion smoothing
because i never felt the need for it. The only taxing map is Marianas where i see some stuttering when
looking left or right, but i can live with that until motion smoothing, MT etc. gets perfected

I should mention that every slider is maxed out in DCS because i love eye-candy graphics. Nothinge else
installed. Beside the DCS.exe, at the same time the only running programs are the Varjo Base, Simracing Studio
because of my DOFReality H6. No taxing processes running in the background......

I dread to think what your fps is... 35 to 40ish?

[dburne]

12 hours ago, Slick Twitchy said:

Thanks always looking for your posts for concise instructions.

I'm presently bogged down into trying to Get Open XR toolkit working again with the Varjo Update-sudden loss of ability to use it-when disabled via checkboxes below OpenXR main screen  (or whatever-but NOT safemode) DCS works great. When enabled, the initial  DCS loading screen is invisible, but still affects cursor movements inside the area where the load screen usually appears. WEIRD. 

Got it sorted. I had to reinstall mbuccia's wrapper into the Varjo folder.....

Also to reiterate looks like "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR  --force_enable_VR- extensions are no longer needed...but may have something to do with my issues.

 

 

On a sidenote, --force_enable_VR is the same as having the VR option selected on in the game's GUI. If you typically leave that on anyway there is no real need for that argument. You do need of course the --force_OpenXR argument along with the @mbucchia provided wrapper. Thank goodness for his help in getting this solution to us! Does not seem ED has any desire to actually fix this for us so we can have true native Open XR support for our Varjo Aeros.

[motoadve]

5 hours ago, fastf1nger said:

I´ve got this combo, runs very smooth with and without the new MT.
Me personally, i don´t see much of a difference with MT enabled, also didn´t try motion smoothing
because i never felt the need for it. The only taxing map is Marianas where i see some stuttering when
looking left or right, but i can live with that until motion smoothing, MT etc. gets perfected

I should mention that every slider is maxed out in DCS because i love eye-candy graphics. Nothinge else
installed. Beside the DCS.exe, at the same time the only running programs are the Varjo Base, Simracing Studio
because of my DOFReality H6. No taxing processes running in the background......

Thanks, I am tempted to go to a 13900K, there is nothing better than enjoy DCS in a Varjo with smooth gam play.

What is your resolution in Varjo base?

[fastf1nger]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb motoadve:

Thanks, I am tempted to go to a 13900K, there is nothing better than enjoy DCS in a Varjo with smooth gam play.

What is your resolution in Varjo base?

Mostly i use the "Highest" ppd.....only Marianas Islands i use the "Higher" setting. But to be true, i don´t really se any differences,
the Aero is so incredible sharp and clear, you can run this on Standard aswell, i wouldn´t worry about that too much. Correct me
if i´m wrong but i also don´t see amazing differences in fps lost when choosing "Highest" setting. Off course i know with this
system it´s not incredible difficult to achieve acceptable fps. 

But every eye and evey human reacts differently. For me a fluid 30-50fps is fine if the visuals are great. As i said, i prefer visual
fidelity and dont need 90fps all the time.

[Willdass]

Anyone else having issues with FFR in OXRTK?

When I enable it (Quality/Wide/ eye tracking on/off) the left display is sharp but the right display has a huge drop off in quality with no AA... 

I run native OpenXR with Mbucchia's wrapper.

[Harlikwin]

6 hours ago, motoadve said:

Thanks, I am tempted to go to a 13900K, there is nothing better than enjoy DCS in a Varjo with smooth gam play.

What is your resolution in Varjo base?

I'm running highest 39ppd option, with higher "ish" settings (not everything set the highest, but a bunch of it) and I'm getting anywhere between 50-90fps depending on the situation. On medium busy MP servers I'm pulling 50-70's. 90 is offline empty mission. I mostly don't have some stuff set high for spotting reasons since I do play MP, and the settings are more optimized for spotting than "eye candy" since we can't have both in DCS. 

12900k/4090 no OC on either. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Harlikwin