Trimming the Ka-50

[Dr_Watson]

I am trying different techniques but so far I am still experimenting. I saw the "display controls" option and have still to enable it, that might help. I will keep experimenting with when to reset the trim. Like you said, once you are at speed or crawling before hover, it isn't really a problem.

 

My next question is why do you need to put a big boot of rudder in as you speed up, with contra-rotating rotors, I thought they would cancel the yaw motion out much more than it seems to in the game.

[Groove]

You mean km/h not knots, right ?

[masonator]

 

My next question is why do you need to put a big boot of rudder in as you speed up, with contra-rotating rotors, I thought they would cancel the yaw motion out much more than it seems to in the game.

 

I kinda thought the same thing. Maybe it's because the aircraft is symmetrical on both sides....the 2A42 cannon on the right side? That's just a wild guess.

[GGTharos]

In the perfect physics lab the torque forces would cancel perfectly, but reality is much more dynamic and it loves throwing wrenches at us when we come out of our perfect physics lab :D

 

My next question is why do you need to put a big boot of rudder in as you speed up, with contra-rotating rotors, I thought they would cancel the yaw motion out much more than it seems to in the game.

[Dr_Watson]

I guess the physics are pretty complex for this beast. S=UT+1/AT2 probably doesn't cover it all!!

 

Maybe Kamov can put a Tornado GR4 tail fin on it to hold her steady!

[Gary]

Now I am confussed!....It seems to imply above that lots of rudder is required to fly straight at speed?...but I dont have this problem!

 

Or does this occur when your not using the auto pilot modes only?

 

Regards,

 

Gary

[masonator]

Well, when I fly, once I am at speed, even if I am trimmed so that I am not banking, if I look at the yaw bubble (on the artificial horizon), it is over to the right. That means the helicopter is dragging to the left. To compensate, I apply some right rudder until the bubble is centered and then trim.

 

This only comes into play at 150kph+ (I find).

[Dr_Watson]

That exactly what I do. I seem to have the nose about 5 degrees to the left of the flight path, with the bubble off to the right. I trim it with right rudder, reset trim and everything is ok. The hard part is once you slow down, you start to get a yaw to the right because the pedals are centred with with right rudder.

 

I think it would be better the trim reset only trims the stick and not the rudder.

 

I am sure this happens when I have the autopilot blue lights on, well, 3 of them anyway. I have still to mess around with the AP, maybe thats what I'm doing wrong.

[mckee14]

i also correct the drift with adding some pedal to the right and trim it out like this. but i always got confused like hell when slowing down and re-trim the whole thing.

 

so i startet to ALWAYS hit trim reset when starting a slow-down. the first thing that will happen is the shark rising its nose high, and starting to drift to the left like nothing. but if you do it quite often, you will get the hang of it and you know how much you have to push the cyclic forward to maintain (more or less) the nose on the horizon. so i hit trim reset and immediately push the stick forward (maybe half the way), but DONT CARE the nose is starting to drift leftways. as soon as the nose is stable on the horizon (when you got used to it, maybe 3 seconds after trim reset), TRIM and THEN compensate for the left-turning with the pedal. DONT re-trim when you have some rudder added, exept you want to hold it on purpose for a longer time (read: when flying fast for a long leg)

 

works for me. sometimes i forget to center the rudder before adding the trim, and 1 minute later i wonder myself why the shark is dancing in the sky like nothing...

[Dr_Watson]

Thanks for the info.

 

It all seems over complicated. I can't imagine a real pilot having to do all this trimming every time he accelerates and slows to a new hover point. We don't have the situation awareness, the G-forces or the control systems a real pilot has so they should have made it a little more forgiving.

 

I can live with it, although it is a little frustrating.

[GGTharos]

Real Ka-50 pilots trim every couple of seconds.

[mckee14]

the trim does only hold the stick in the current position. so you could completely deavtivate / not use trimming, and just hold the stick in a certain position, then you have it as real as it gets... or wait, use a force feedback joystick, because these DO stay in position when you trim.

 

but that's how the shark fly in real, so we have to get used to it...

 

trim, trim, trim. and then, trim some more :)

[Tartan_Piper]

Maybe i'm doing something wrong but i never seem to use the trim reset botton. All i do is hold down the trim botton put the aircraft in the attitude i want then release it again.

 

If a want to slow down i just hit the trim botton pitch up say 10/15 degrees, keep the yaw indicator centered then release the trim button. Once im at the speed i require i just hold trim again place her back in level flight then release. Seeems to work fine.

[GGTharos]

You are doing it right :D

[Dr_Watson]

Sounds good. Will try everything that has been mentioned so far.

[EvilBivol-1]

FYI, the real aircraft does not have a "trim reset" function. This is something ED implemented for the benefit of flight simmers, based on high demand for this feature in Flaming Cliffs.

 

If you choose to reset your trim, you have to be very careful, because your controls will suddenly snap from their trimmed position into the default neutral position. This will almost always cause a sudden and violent pitch motion, sometimes even braking the aircraft. This happens, because the cyclic is usually trimmed in a stick-forward position and in addition, because the default neutral controls position in-game actually pitches the helicopter back (i.e. when taking off in a new chopper, simply pulling the collective without even touching the cyclic will pull the helicopter onto its tail).

 

If you want to recenter your controls, the best thing to do is enable the controls display (RCTRL+ENTER) and manually and in increments trim closer to the defualt position (remember, putting the cyclic in the center of the display cross will actually pitch the helicopter back, so you want it about 20% forward of center for level flight). Once you get it close, you can safely reset the trim.

Edited November 28, 2008 by EvilBivol-1

[Dr_Watson]

Nice explanation. I already discovered that you need to trim a little forward or else you takeoff nose high.

 

I also found you need to trim as soon as you land or all sorts can happen once you are down!

[McVittees]

FYI, the real aircraft does not have a "trim reset" function. This is something ED implemented for the benefit of flight simmers, based on high demand for this feature in Flaming Cliffs.

 

If you choose to reset your trim, you have to be very careful, because your controls will suddenly snap from their trimmed position into the default neutral position. This will almost always cause a sudden and violent pitch motion, sometimes even braking the aircraft. This happens, because the cyclic is usually trimmed in a stick-forward position and in addition, because the default neutral controls position in-game actually pitches the helicopter back (i.e. when taking off in a new chopper, simply pulling the collective without even touching the cyclic will pull the helicopter onto its tail).

 

If you want to recenter your controls, the best thing to do is enable the controls display (RCTRL+ENTER) and manually and in increments trim closer to the defualt position (remember, putting the cyclic in the center of the display cross will actually pitch the helicopter back, so you want it about 20% forward of center for level flight). Once you get it close, you can safely reset the trim.

 

 

Bearing in mind that many of your customers do not frequent these forums and so may miss much of this vital information (all of these thread on trimming for instance) would you consider adding content to the final Black Shark manual? I have found that much like the manual for LO:FC, BS's manual is a very technical document and could do with more in-practise/background content.

 

Obvioulsy I'm not asking for this on my behalf because here I am reading it :D, but think it really could be of value to others.

 

(...well okay, I could sit and read threads like this all day but still...)

[Boberro]

RCtrl+ENTER is veeeery helpful, nice feature!

[ntonis]

when i press the trim button it drop the helli nose down!!! (why do that) ,only if i press reset trim button its works so i use a lot, the reset buttom. is this ok?? or problem???

[Dr_Watson]

try returning your joystick to centre position quicker, sounds like you are trimming then not centering your stick quick enough.

[ntonis]

i have saitek x45 the stick is in center and when i push the trim button do this ......

[Tartan_Piper]

i have saitek x45 the stick is in center and when i push the trim button do this ......

 

 

Go here and read this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33812

 

Teachs you everthing you need to know about how to trim the KA-50. :thumbup:

[Brute]

Bearing in mind that many of your customers do not frequent these forums and so may miss much of this vital information (all of these thread on trimming for instance) would you consider adding content to the final Black Shark manual? I have found that much like the manual for LO:FC, BS's manual is a very technical document and could do with more in-practise/background content.

 

I second the motion. Adding quick notes on how the trimming and autopilot work in this simulation would save a lot of frustration for the new simmers.

[DanKurt]

Advice needed for triming with a MS FFB.

 

Well I dusted off the ol MS FFB joystick to see what all the fuss was with this trim on BS. I have managed to trim fine with my CH stick and was curious so set up the FFB stick.

When I held down the trim button the stick force slackened as it should then when I was happy with flight angle I released the trim, this is where it went all wrong, imediatley the stick kicked in my hand the returned to centre:joystick:

I tried to slacken the forces in the setup but still the same.

I was wondering if this is due to the MS FFB having a infared sensor at the base of the handle for sensing when your hand is placed on the stick.

I am sure some of you guys have found a way of this stick imitating the true cyclic trim action, so would appreciate any feedback...pardon the pun:doh: