need track replay AI wingmen not yet implemented?

[Hippo]

AFAICT the AI wingmen appear to be almost useless.  I assume that much work on this aspect remains to be done?  Has ED said anything about this?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Hippo

[TZeer]

Helicopter AI in general tends to be lacking  

But yeah, I don't think ED has said anything about the helicopter AI at this time.

[sirrah]

58 minutes ago, Hippo said:

AFAICT the AI wingmen appear to be almost useless.  I assume that much work on this aspect remains to be done?  Has ED said anything about this?

 

Can you expand on what you mean exactly?

Yes, AI in general needs more love, and luckily it's getting much love from ED (proved by all the AI improvements in the last few updates )

But as for the Apache wingman; so far, my wingman does exactly what I order him to do. That said, you will have to make sure you're on the same freq as him of course. Other than that, personally I didn't really notice any difference as to my wingman in other modules.

[corbu1]

I‘d love to see some helo specific commands for my wingman.

just an example:

I‘d like to hell him - hold this position in a hover - this is actually not possible.

I can command him to hold position, but he will not do that in a hover. He will circling around and wait for further orders. This does not work very good, because most time  he is circling around he exposes himself as a nice target to the enemy and got shoot down. otherwise if not shot down he crashes regularly into a building or trees….

 

I‘d really love to see some specific helo AI commands which could help flying with your AI wingmen in a more tactical way as a weapon team.

[sirrah]

59 minutes ago, corbu1 said:

I‘d love to see some helo specific commands for my wingman.

just an example:

I‘d like to hell him - hold this position in a hover - this is actually not possible.

I can command him to hold position, but he will not do that in a hover. He will circling around and wait for further orders. This does not work very good, because most time  he is circling around he exposes himself as a nice target to the enemy and got shoot down. otherwise if not shot down he crashes regularly into a building or trees….

 

I‘d really love to see some specific helo AI commands which could help flying with your AI wingmen in a more tactical way as a weapon team.

Nobody will disagree with you, but this is a wish and not a bug. Also, I don't think this is what @Hippomeant in his OP.

[corbu1]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb sirrah:

Nobody will disagree with you, but this is a wish and not a bug. Also, I don't think this is what @Hippomeant in his OP.

Well, I just wanted to support Hippo‘s opinion.

Helicopter AI has already seen some work, but there‘s still something needed to make them better work as helo AI wingmen. In general, I think they just act more like jetfighter AI than helo AI. So, some helo specific commands would be very helpful like a hover position hold command, I think.

[Hippo]

14 hours ago, sirrah said:

Can you expand on what you mean exactly?

 

To learn the apache I have been using a version of the ka-50 mission "gauntlet" that I have modified by switching sides and hardware around, so that I can fly it with the ah-64d.  I use this mission because I was quite familiar with it when using the ka-50 many moons ago.  My recollection is that the AI back then used to be pretty helpful in completing the mission.  Now, sure, they follow me around, but they seem to be very ineffective in engaging targets, and seem to blunder in anyway when I ask them to hold position at a distance.  I agree entirely with corbu1 that they should hover rather than orbit.

The comms menus seem identical to the ka-50 ones, which may be as it should be, and the wingman voices have Russian accents, although this may be due to my mission editing (lack of) capabilities.

I tried getting back iinto the ka-50 about a year ago, and gave up almost immediately, mostly because I found the AI wingmen to be very poor.  I have the impression that the helo AI wingmen for the apache are just the same.  I'm interested to hear that you find them to be adequate.  I might have rushed to judgement and will try to test more thoroughly, but my impression so far is that a lot of work is required.

I still remain interested to hear what the official position on the wingman AI for the apache is.  Is it considered to be working correcly and staying mostly as is?  Or does a lot or work remain to done on it? 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Hippo

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, Hippo said:

To learn the apache I have been using a version of the ka-50 mission "gauntlet" that I have modified by switching sides and hardware around, so that I can fly it with the ah-64d.  I use this mission because I was quite familiar with it when using the ka-50 many moons ago.  My recollection is that the AI back then used to be pretty helpful in completing the mission.  Now, sure, they follow me around, but they seem to be very ineffective in engaging targets, and seem to blunder in anyway when I ask them to hold position at a distance.  I agree entirely with corbu1 that they should hover rather than orbit.

The comms menus seem identical to the ka-50 ones, which may be as it should be, and the wingman voices have Russian accents, although this may be due to my mission editing (lack of) capabilities.

I tried getting back iinto the ka-50 about a year ago, and gave up almost immediately, mostly because I found the AI wingmen to be very poor.  I have the impression that the helo AI wingmen for the apache are just the same.  I'm interested to hear that you find them to be adequate.  I might have rushed to judgement and will try to test more thoroughly, but my impression so far is that a lot of work is required.

I still remain interested to hear what the official position on the wingman AI for the apache is.  Is it considered to be working correcly and staying mostly as is?  Or does a lot or work remain to done on it? 

 

Well, I didn't test thoroughly (till now I mostly flew solo missions), but I have been playing the Georgian Hammer campaigns by @Eight Ball and Royal Hammer by @Dave317 and there I was able to use my wingman.

To give two examples:

On one mission I gave him the "cover me" order. At some point while I was handling the TADS looking for targets, he committed to attack two Hinds that where taking of nearby.

He also started to attack ground targets when I ordered him to, and as far as I could see, he prioritized high threats over low threats.

 

 

Sure, he also died on a few missions, but that just happens to AI. They do silly things sometimes. It's not so much a bug, but more like it has always been this way. Improvement and more ordering options are definitely welcome, and luckily high on ED's agenda.

[Hippo]

5 minutes ago, sirrah said:

 Georgian Hammer campaigns by @Eight Ball and Royal Hammer by @Dave317 and there I was able to use my wingman.

 luckily high on ED's agenda.

Thanks for mentioning all of that.  I will give those a go and persevere.  It was taking me around 2hrs (no s**t) just to clear the targets around WP1 in Gauntlet.  Time to try some other missions

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

please include track replay examples showing any issue when creating a bug report so we can investigate. 

AI wingmen will engage targets, change formation, join up, RTB and other commands in the radio menu. 

We do plan to make the commands more Helo orientated in the future. 

[corbu1]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb BIGNEWY:

We do plan to make the commands more Helo orientated in the future. 

Thank you, this is great news!!

[Hippo]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:26 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

please include track replay examples showing any issue when creating a bug report so we can investigate. 

AI wingmen will engage targets, change formation, join up, RTB and other commands in the radio menu. 

We do plan to make the commands more Helo orientated in the future. 

Hi.  Thanks for replying.  A bit silly of me to have posted in the bugs forum, should've gone for the main forum instead.  Sorry.  The post was meant more as a first impression / general feeling of this doesn't seem to be working very well, is it being worked on, what do others think?

Edited May 31, 2022 by Hippo

[hreich]

Try and use this - it's far better than your wingman... https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3320007/?sphrase_id=13526539