F-14A Exterior Lights - Position Lights Should Flash w/Anti-Collision Lights

[Andrew8604]

I remember observing many F-14A's at night around NAS Miramar (in San Diego) in the late-1970's through mid-1980's and the Position Lights and Anti-Collision Lights always flashed in unison.  Can anyone confirm?  Can anyone verify that maybe that was not the case anymore by the 1990's or 2000's?   I don't think that turning on the Anti-Collision Lights should force the Position Lights to steady.

Position Lights being the wingtip and wing-root navigation lights, as well as the left vertical tail's trailing-edge white position light.

Anti-Collision Lights being the right vertical tail's trailing-edge red light, left vertical tail's leading-edge red light and the under-nose red light.

The only change to make this so, in this DCS module, would be that when Position Lights are set to FLASH and Anti-Collision Lights are ON (which always flash when on) that they all flash in unison (together and at the same rate).  All other behaviors of the Exterior Lighting should be fine, as is. 

The F-4N/S Phantom II had the same light behavior.  All position and anti-collision lights could flash in unison, and that's usually how I observed them during the same time period...although it did not have wing root lights, as its wings didn't have variable sweep, of course.  The F-4 did not have an under-nose red light but had a semi-flush mounted white "fuselage" light under each engine air intake body.

[Golo]

2 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

I don't think that turning on the Anti-Collision Lights should force the Position Lights to steady.

It seems that is the case.

From NATOPS manual (Same for A, B):

ANTI COLLISION light switch, ON and OFF - Energizes or deenergizes the anticollision lights. When anticollision lights are on, the flasher unit for the position lights is disabled.

POSITION lights flasher switch, FLASH - Causes the wing or supplementary tail and position lights to operate in a flashing mode with landing gear up. With gear down supplementary lights operate steady only.

                                                     STEADY - With the wing and tail (or either) position lights on, lights are on steady.

[captain_dalan]

And tail lights always flash in DCS. Are they supposed to be that way? 

[Callsign JoNay]

The anti smash tail lights always flash, but the white positional tail light, (which has a red texture to trigger the rivet counters), should does not flash if the switch is set to steady.

[captain_dalan]

Roger!

[LanceCriminal86]

14 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

The anti smash tail lights always flash, but the white positional tail light, (which has a red texture to trigger the rivet counters), should does not flash if the switch is set to steady.

.....

Well, I've been staring at that area because the stab or rudder is slightly crooked and never noticed that. Guess I'll add that to the stack.

[Andrew8604]

Alright, I see in a NATOPS F-14B Flight Manual - August 2001 that what you are saying is correct and how it works in the F-14A/B in DCS matches the NATOPS manual exactly.

However, that does not explain why I saw what I saw so many, many times in the night sky near Miramar.  Maybe something changed.  Maybe the F-14s were reworked sometime in the late 80s or 90s to make it as described in this 2001 NATOPS manual.  Maybe in the late 70s and early 80s, the Anti-Collision lights switch "ON" did NOT disable the flasher for the position lights.  Or maybe there simply was no Anti-Collision Lights switch and all lights were considered POSITION lights.  And POSITION lights to FLASH, flashed them all together.  I'll have to try to get a 1981 or 1979 F-14A NATOPS manual and see what it says.  I know this is very minor stuff.  But having seen so many back in those days, how could I have seen it wrong?    I have two animated GIF files attached.  The one where all lights flash together is what I'm SURE I saw in those days.  The other GIF shows what it should look like according to the NATOPS manual.  (I added a picture to clarify which lights on the plane and the orientation I'm talking about. The orientation of lights when viewed from port side, abeam.)

Yes, the left vertical fin white light has a red lens!  I'm triggered!!    That'll get fixed?  That's about as minor as can get.  But it may as well be fixed.

Thanks, you all.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Andrew8604
Add picture to illustrate which lights I'm depicting.

[JupiterJoe]

I switch on all exterior lights (excluding taxi light) when at mil+ power on the catapult (day or night) and when within 7 miles of the carrier (day or night).  When on-shore all exterior lights are illuminated (excluding taxi light during the day, with good visibility) when the engines are running.   Is this correct procedure?  Should the taxi light be used during the day on the runway?

Edited August 11, 2022 by JupiterJoe

[LanceCriminal86]

The current tails also have a D feature, an extra light on the right VSTAB cap below the mentioned anti-collision light. Not present on As or A+/B as far as I can see. Let's see if they can get some liquid nitrogen or dental floss out and chop it off like a skin tag.

[Jackjack171]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:22 AM, JupiterJoe said:

I switch on all exterior lights (excluding taxi light) when at mil+ power on the catapult (day or night) and when within 7 miles of the carrier (day or night).  When on-shore all exterior lights are illuminated (excluding taxi light during the day, with good visibility) when the engines are running.   Is this correct procedure?  Should the taxi light be used during the day on the runway?

 

Exterior lights (no taxi/landing lights) on the catapult should only be used during the night or case III. They also are not used during the day around the pattern either. Other than that, you are fine!
FYI, IRL lights on deck mean a hydraulic or brake failure and is a signal to the deck crew that you have no brakes and to take steps to get you stopped and secured. I hope that helps.

[draconus]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:59 PM, Andrew8604 said:

Maybe the F-14s were reworked sometime in the late 80s or 90s to make it as described in this 2001 NATOPS manual.

I doubt it. HB modeled the Tomcat based on the proper (older) NATOPS and this function is described in their manual.

https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#external-lighting

Also it does not matter for DCS as long as the older models (70-80s) are not the ones which are simulated.

@LanceCriminal86 the rudder model bug is very old and reported repeatedly

Edited August 18, 2022 by draconus

[LanceCriminal86]

13 hours ago, draconus said:

I doubt it. HB modeled the Tomcat based on the proper (older) NATOPS and this function is described in their manual.

https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#external-lighting

Also it does not matter for DCS as long as the older models (70-80s) are not the ones which are simulated.

@LanceCriminal86 the rudder model bug is very old and reported repeatedly

 

I know, and the problem is fixing it will break anything but blank tail skins. Even if graphics don't cross over from VSTAB to rudder panel the alignment of anything on the rudder panel would be thrown off. It looks like the VSTAB was accidentally rotated longitudinally at some point.

[Andrew8604]

On 8/18/2022 at 12:18 AM, draconus said:

I doubt it. HB modeled the Tomcat based on the proper (older) NATOPS and this function is described in their manual.

https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#external-lighting

Also it does not matter for DCS as long as the older models (70-80s) are not the ones which are simulated.

@LanceCriminal86 the rudder model bug is very old and reported repeatedly

 

I wonder if there might be a way to "mod" the F-14A so that switching on anti-collision lights won't disable the flashing of the nav/position lights.  That way I could change my aircraft's function just for me.  I suppose it would be too much to ask if HB could add an option to enable/disable the Nav/Pos Lights Flasher cut-out function.  Well, maybe only if it can be proven the 70s-80's F-14As' lights function was that way.  Thanks for your comments, guys.

Just to be clear and sum it up:  HB has it CORRECT for the time period of the modeled F-14A/B...which appears to be late 90s-2000s.  It is, as per 2001 NATOPS manual, for example.

[Golo]

5 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

I wonder if there might be a way to "mod" the F-14A so that switching on anti-collision lights won't disable the flashing of the nav/position lights.  That way I could change my aircraft's function just for me.  I suppose it would be too much to ask if HB could add an option to enable/disable the Nav/Pos Lights Flasher cut-out function.  Well, maybe only if it can be proven the 70s-80's F-14As' lights function was that way.  Thanks for your comments, guys.

Just to be clear and sum it up:  HB has it CORRECT for the time period of the modeled F-14A/B...which appears to be late 90s-2000s.  It is, as per 2001 NATOPS manual, for example.

I hate to brake it to you but even preliminary manual for F-14A from 1972 says same thing.

- When anticollision lights are on, the flasher unit for the position lights is disabled.

 

[Andrew8604]

17 hours ago, Golo said:

I hate to brake it to you but even preliminary manual for F-14A from 1972 says same thing.

- When anticollision lights are on, the flasher unit for the position lights is disabled.

 

No, that's fine.  If that's what it is, then that's what it is.  Thanks for letting me know!  I must not have observed what I thought I observed back in the 70s and 80s.  I must have saw it wrong.  Maybe the anti-collision lights over-powered the position lights in brightness to where I thought they were all flashing.   At any rate, they don't look that great in DCS.  Problems with rendering at various distances in limited pixel resolution, I'd imagine.

But on the F-4 Phantom, I'm absolutely sure I saw all the lights flash in unison.     We'll have to see what those NATOPS's say.  Different aircraft, different manufacturer.  But whatever NATOPS says.

I suppose I could close this topic out, then.  Or we just let it rest here?