reported Mirrors removed has same FPS hit as mirrors on

[Benom8]

Hi,

Being able to remove the mirrors completely is a neat feature, but I noticed that doing so gives the same FPS hit as having them rendering reflections. Brief track attached, sitting on the tarmac at Tinian, where mirrors seem to make a big FPS difference on my system. The only geometry behind the mirrors was the ground.

With the mirrors on but not rendering reflections I got 60FPS (vsync limit), but with the reflections on, or mirrors removed it was down to around 40.

Apologies if this is already known, I couldn't find a thread about it.

Key system specs: i5-9600K, 32GB RAM, GTX 1660S.

Mi24-Mirrors-FPS.trk

[MoleUK]

That's actually interesting. One time I was flying the hip in VR with mirrors disabled, something glitched and I suddenly had the mirror displays hovering on both sides, without being attached to the airframe. Couldn't toggle them off again as they were supposed to be completely disabled.

Makes me wonder if that's a wider problem, where switching them off sometimes leaves them rendering but invisible.

Edited August 17, 2022 by MoleUK

[Hiob]

Have you tried to switch mirrors "off" with the 'm' key (even with them not rendered)? Does this make a difference?

[Benom8]

Good thought @Hiob, but that binding just cycles between reflections on, off and mirrors removed, so pressing it while they're removed just turns them back on with reflections.

 

I should clarify that the FPS hit mentioned in the OP was not using fullscreen mode, but a similar thing happens in fullscreen just with higher total fps figures.

[Tepnox]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:47 PM, Benom8 said:

Hi,

Being able to remove the mirrors completely is a neat feature, but I noticed that doing so gives the same FPS hit as having them rendering reflections. Brief track attached, sitting on the tarmac at Tinian, where mirrors seem to make a big FPS difference on my system. The only geometry behind the mirrors was the ground.

With the mirrors on but not rendering reflections I got 60FPS (vsync limit), but with the reflections on, or mirrors removed it was down to around 40.

Apologies if this is already known, I couldn't find a thread about it.

Key system specs: i5-9600K, 32GB RAM, GTX 1660S.

Mi24-Mirrors-FPS.trk 98.71 kB · 0 downloads

I can confirm this is exactly what I found out. Mirrors on (including reflection) has the same GPU load impact as Mirrors completely removed.

Only the second option (Mirrors are shown but not the reflection itself) reduces the GPU load.

I fly in VR and the GPU load with/without mirrors on the Hind can be a difference of up to 15 % headroom. So It would be nice, if this could be fixed.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Tepnox

[Tepnox]

It looks like this issue is fixed with OB 2.8.0.32066. Thx ED!

[PeevishMonkey]

31.10.2022 в 21:11, Tepnox сказал:

It looks like this issue is fixed with OB 2.8.0.32066.

Unfortunately no. It's still present.

FPS counter near the mirror and we can see the equal FPS in modes "mirrors ON" and "mirrors are removed at all" and in both case it's less then "mirrors are present but OFF".

Edited November 13, 2022 by PeevishMonkey

[Baltic Pirate]

6 hours ago, PeevishMonkey said:

Unfortunately no. It's still present.

FPS counter near the mirror and we can see the equal FPS in modes "mirrors ON" and "mirrors are removed at all" and in both case it's less then "mirrors are present but OFF".

 

Interesting. Did you try with mirrors removed and then toggle off with M key. Does that make a difference?

[PeevishMonkey]

3 часа назад, Baltic Pirate сказал:

Did you

No, I didn't. Only this mirror's regimes.

[Tepnox]

18 hours ago, PeevishMonkey said:

Unfortunately no. It's still present.

FPS counter near the mirror and we can see the equal FPS in modes "mirrors ON" and "mirrors are removed at all" and in both case it's less then "mirrors are present but OFF".

 

Can`t confirm this on my end. Tested this on Caucasus and Syria Map. GPU load only increases when having mirrors on and enabled. No mirrors has the same effect like blank mirrors, so the same.

You sure you are on Open Beta?

[PeevishMonkey]

4 часа назад, Tepnox сказал:

You sure you are on Open Beta?

Yes, I'm sure. 146%.

[Tepnox]

I tested this on my end in 2D-mode and it works as intended:

MIRRORS OFF (166FPS):

MIRRORS on but inactive (166FPS):

MIRRORS ON and active (128 FPS):

[PeevishMonkey]

7 часов назад, Tepnox сказал:

I tested this on my end in 2D-mode and it works as intended

Thanks. It looks like: "Houston, we I have a problem" (c)

Could you share DCS graphics and NVIDIA Control Panel settings?

Edited November 15, 2022 by PeevishMonkey

[Tepnox]

7 hours ago, PeevishMonkey said:

Thanks. It looks like: "Houston, we I have a problem" (c)

Could you share DCS graphics and NVIDIA Control Panel settings?

 

Sure thing (don't mind the 1920x1080 - I play in VR so this setting doesn't matter):

Nothing special in NVIDIA Panel, but here you go:

[Kobymaru]

Hi, is there any update on this Bug? I can reproduce this 100% reliable. Going from 90 FPS with mirrors on to 100 FPS with mirrors inactive back to 90 fps with mirrors off.

Any screenshots or tracks that are needed?

[Flappie]

2 hours ago, Kobymaru said:

Any screenshots or tracks that are needed?

Hi. Yes, we need a short track, please.

[Kobymaru]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:23 PM, Flappie said:

Hi. Yes, we need a short track, please.

Sitting in Beirut: https://youtu.be/lqWQU4a1pwU

Multi Thread Preview: 2.8.4.38947

 

Settings:

mi24-beirut-mirrors.trk

Edited April 15, 2023 by Kobymaru
Added track

[Flappie]

Many thanks. I used your DCS system options then ran your track:

• No mirrors: 57 FPS
• Empty mirrors: 57 FPS
• Mirrors enabled: 50 FPS

I'm still unable to replicate your issue.

I can see in your track that you're running the latest OB. Run a DCS repair in "slow" mode.

[Benom8]

Hi all,

Apologies for not checking in on this in a while, it seems like it's still happening (on my system at least). I've run a slow repair and with the attached track I get the following results:
 

Mirrors on FPS	Mirrors off FPS	Mirrors hidden	Threading	Version
25	30	25	ST	2.8.6.41066
43-46	50-54	43-46	MT	2.8.6.41066

nullDCS settings attached.

Mi24-Mirrors-FPS_2.trk

[Flappie]

I've changed my settings a few weeks ago, which allowed me to witness the issue using your latest track, at last! I then compared my new options.lua file with the former, and I eventually found the culprit:

Untick this box before playing, and you will get back the FPS you usually lose.

Issue reported. Thanks for your tenacity @Benom8.

[Benom8]

@Flappie That's interesting! Thanks for working that out, and passing it on to the devs.

[zero2005]

So, I've been doing some testing for VR for some other issues, but this popped up today for me as I was checking something in 2d/chasing down other bugs:

Hind has 3 states for mirrors, "on" and "enabled", "on" but the reflective view is "disabled", and completely removed.

When they are completely removed, they have the same frame rate hit/impact for me when they are on and enabled, which in 2d was about a 10% or more hit. at 4k and my VR settings (but again, in 2d flat panel), I would hover around 250-260 frames in the hind freeflight mission which starts you in active pause after you press OK, with the mirrors either on/enabled or completely removed.

when having them in view, but the reflection turned off -> immediately shot up to 290-300 frames.

Can we please get some optimizations for the hind? Can we get an option to disable rendering the front gunner seat completely or something, if we don't plan on using it? there's something else in the forward view that's causing additional load that doesn't seem like it needs to be.

Edited October 5, 2024 by zero2005

[MoleUK]

I think I saw this bug listed as fixed in a changelog previously, could have reared it's head again.

iirc last time it had to be ticked off in the special menu or it would render while invisible.

[Benom8]

Found my old thread about this. Pretty sure it WAS fixed at some point.

EDIT: checked through change logs and didn't see anything. I may be mistaken about whether this was ever fixed.

Edited October 10, 2024 by Benom8
Checked changelogs.

[Flappie]

On 10/10/2024 at 2:33 PM, Benom8 said:

Found my old thread about this. Pretty sure it WAS fixed at some point.

Negative. It's been there since the beginning and it has never been fixed.

I'll bump the report.