already reported AA/AAA accuracy

[Mr_sukebe]

Time to revisit the accuracy of AA/AAA.

Here's some links to stats and info:

https://www.quora.com/How-effective-were-anti-aircraft-guns-during-the-Second-World-War

https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/german-aaa.html

The first study includes data from the US Navy and as an example shows that for say the 20mm AA, that it would normally take over 5000 rounds to kill an aircraft.

The second talks about the use of larger AAA, like the FLAK38/41 including:

• The Germans had stats that it took roughly 16,000 rounds on average to bring down a single bomber. 
• The FLAK guns had a minimum 20 second period for the fusing, and were typically employed against targets at over 20,000'
• To predict where to fire a large AA - "This method requires that the aircraft be flying reasonably straight and level for about 90 seconds before reaching the predicted point"

 

To sanity check how the above stands up in DCS.  I setup 3 airfields, one with a single 20mm AA.  The other two with FLAK unit and the spotting kit, then flew a P51 straight and level over each.

1. At 2000' the P51 was shot down on the 4th burst of fire by the 20mm
2. At 5000' the P51 was happily engaged by the large FLAK
3. At 10000' the P51 was happily engaged by the large FLAK

The track file is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IVThE92KoJQTkER03k7lcTQd6sIXFtO6/view?usp=sharing

 

If the above links are anything like accurate that would imply:

 - The big FLAK shouldn't have been shooting at the P51 at 5000' and 10000'

 - Accuracy of the shooting against a target at 2000' is simply too good

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Mr_sukebe

[Sacarino111]

47 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

- Accuracy of the shooting against a target at 2000' is simply too good

Yes, my exact thoughts.

Saludos.

Saca111

[KoN]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:38 AM, Mr_sukebe said:

Time to revisit the accuracy of AA/AAA.

Here's some links to stats and info:

https://www.quora.com/How-effective-were-anti-aircraft-guns-during-the-Second-World-War

https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/german-aaa.html

The first study includes data from the US Navy and as an example shows that for say the 20mm AA, that it would normally take over 5000 rounds to kill an aircraft.

The second talks about the use of larger AAA, like the FLAK38/41 including:

• The Germans had stats that it took roughly 16,000 rounds on average to bring down a single bomber. 
• The FLAK guns had a minimum 20 second period for the fusing, and were typically employed against targets at over 20,000'
• To predict where to fire a large AA - "This method requires that the aircraft be flying reasonably straight and level for about 90 seconds before reaching the predicted point"

 

To sanity check how the above stands up in DCS.  I setup 3 airfields, one with a single 20mm AA.  The other two with FLAK unit and the spotting kit, then flew a P51 straight and level over each.

1. At 2000' the P51 was shot down on the 4th burst of fire by the 20mm
2. At 5000' the P51 was happily engaged by the large FLAK
3. At 10000' the P51 was happily engaged by the large FLAK

The track file is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IVThE92KoJQTkER03k7lcTQd6sIXFtO6/view?usp=sharing

 

If the above links are anything like accurate that would imply:

 - The big FLAK shouldn't have been shooting at the P51 at 5000' and 10000'

 - Accuracy of the shooting against a target at 2000' is simply too good

 

 

Thank you this is totally good info . And proves that Aim-bot AAA is totally OP in dcs. . 

Edited October 22, 2022 by KoN

[TK-421]

This same problem persists for almost all AAA, but I notice it the most when playing WW2 and Helicopters.

Some dude with an AK can pull perfect lead and string multiple hits on my chopper at hundreds of meters. They really need to fix the ground fire...

[DD_Fenrir]

Trained  - should fire too soon and basically track the target via it's sight, not applying any lead laterally or enough elevation to account for bullet drop over range with large CEP

Average - should open fire at about the right range, applying some lead laterally and elevation to account for bullet drop over range but starts to correct the error as the engagement continues with moderate CEP

Good - should open fire at the optimum range, applying correct lead laterally and correct elevation to account for bullet drop over range and corrects more quickly after the first burst with small CEP

Excellent - should open fire at slightly within the optimum range, applying correct lead laterally and correct elevation to account for bullet drop over range and very small CEP

[Mr_sukebe]

8 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Trained  - should fire too soon and basically track the target via it's sight, not applying any lead laterally or enough elevation to account for bullet drop over range with large CEP

Average - should open fire at about the right range, applying some lead laterally and elevation to account for bullet drop over range but starts to correct the error as the engagement continues with moderate CEP

Good - should open fire at the optimum range, applying correct lead laterally and correct elevation to account for bullet drop over range and corrects more quickly after the first burst with small CEP

Excellent - should open fire at slightly within the optimum range, applying correct lead laterally and correct elevation to account for bullet drop over range and very small CEP

Your definitions make sense, but I don’t believe we’re seeing that in game 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Mr_sukebe

[Dragon1-1]

Actually, I'm of the opinion that in many cases, ground units shouldn't fire, period. Specifically, when they can't put the target within their sight while also pulling enough lead to hit. In such a situation, you can't aim, no matter how good you are, and spraying around the sky at random doesn't work. Try hitting a plane with optical sights in ArmA3 if you don't believe, pretty damn hard even when it's coming straight at you. On top of that, accuracy of non-radar guided AA should be greatly reduced even on Ace. Right now, they're both too good and too bad, depending on what you're flying. They'll nail your helo 100% of the time, but if you're flying fixed wing, they're perfectly predictable, and a small, properly timed input on the stick is all it takes for a burst to fly harmlessly by. This kind of thing should still work, just not as well as it does right now, the pattern should be much wider. Right now they all act like they had gunlaying radars.