New computer - Need advice on CPU alternatives

[NightstalkerNOR]

Hello. Multiple threads on new simbuilds already, but I am struggling navigating the jungle that is CPU related questions so I have to ask mine directly...

I am planning a computerbuild which is directed on simulators such as DCS and MSFS. I will be flying VR and want as smooth as possible experience while not sacrificing too much eyecandy. I do understand that I have to sacrifice some when using VR. I am considering the 12900k as too expensive, but I am requesting your help in finding a bit cheaper alternatives. I already have some in mind but I want to hear your opinions first. It's not important if it's the newest, or "techiest". If it makes the sim run as smooth as possible, I am interested.

[AngleOff66]

Do you have a budget? Located in NA or Europe?

You may want to wait to see what the new AMD and intel/nvidia releases will bring.  These are all happening within weeks/months.

I've read good things about the 58003XD, but it is end of life platform wise.

 

 

[BitMaster]

Get the fastest your budget can buy after you bought the biggest GPU.

12700k/12900k can use DDR4 but the soon arriving Ryzen 7000 is likely considerably faster..but needs DDR5 and has a steep price curve on boards. Wiith Intel you can get away cheaper

unless you consider Ryzen 5000 an option, the 5800X3D would be my pick then.

If I had to buy now, today, I would find an excuse not to and wait till Ryzen 7000 is here with some reviews. It's literally only weeks till you can buy them.

 

When it comes to GPU, boy, you are lucky !  ETH just dropped proof of work and prices are falling. Hurray   For VR you should go Nvidia but VR is not really my expertise atm.

[NightstalkerNOR]

3 hours ago, NoCoolName66 said:

Do you have a budget? Located in NA or Europe?

You may want to wait to see what the new AMD and intel/nvidia releases will bring.  These are all happening within weeks/months.

I've read good things about the 58003XD, but it is end of life platform wise.

 

 

Thank you for the reply. I am on somewhat on a budget, but I can spend a decent amount on a new setup. I don't want to specify how much I'm putting in to this 'cause it all ends up in price vs. power. I don't want to spend $800 on a CPU that gives me 10 extra FPS, when a cheaper chip can give me a significant amount as well. But if there is a CPU that outclasses most, I would consider it.

I have been following the development on the arrival of new cards and CPUs. However, I suspect they will be quite pricy. I don't know if it will make anything more clear, but I do not need the newest high tech equipment for a high price just because it's new, if I can get good parts today that will give me a smooth ride.

Do we know what the new cards will cost, and what they will deliver. I suspect I would put more money into a motherboard and memory as well?

[NightstalkerNOR]

I located in europe, btw

[NightstalkerNOR]

1 hour ago, BitMaster said:

Get the fastest your budget can buy after you bought the biggest GPU.

12700k/12900k can use DDR4 but the soon arriving Ryzen 7000 is likely considerably faster..but needs DDR5 and has a steep price curve on boards. Wiith Intel you can get away cheaper

unless you consider Ryzen 5000 an option, the 5800X3D would be my pick then.

If I had to buy now, today, I would find an excuse not to and wait till Ryzen 7000 is here with some reviews. It's literally only weeks till you can buy them.

 

When it comes to GPU, boy, you are lucky !  ETH just dropped proof of work and prices are falling. Hurray   For VR you should go Nvidia but VR is not really my expertise atm.

I have been looking at both the 12700K and the 5800X3D. I have made two pcpartspicker list based off of those two and sort of have my sight aimed for the AMD one.

4 hours ago, NoCoolName66 said:

Do you have a budget? Located in NA or Europe?

You may want to wait to see what the new AMD and intel/nvidia releases will bring.  These are all happening within weeks/months.

I've read good things about the 58003XD, but it is end of life platform wise.

 

 

I have also heard what you are saying about it, but that question is sort of why I started this thread: The 5800X3D is within my budget. It has the power I am looking for and delivers both in VR and "pancake", but I read that it will be "outdated" soon. However; When we are talking "outdated", does that mean it will be insufficient within the next 5 years or so? I know it's a hard question to answer, maybe, but it fills all my requirements at the time, and I suspect it won't be insufficient with MSFS2020 and DCS within those years? 

I suspect that the coming GPU and CPUs will be very powerful, and the price likewise. Therefore I am looking at the current best CPUs.

[Lange_666]

9 hours ago, NightstalkerNOR said:

The 5800X3D is within my budget. It has the power I am looking for and delivers both in VR and "pancake", but I read that it will be "outdated" soon.

The 5800X3D will go on an AM4 motherboard, the new 7000 series will need an AM5 one. As far as i know there are no AM4 motherboards that support DDR5 Ram either (AM5 does but will be DDR5 only). So as with almost any new Intel CPU, this time you can't use your old AMD AM4 motherboard for a future upgrade to a 7000 series CPU.

I'm a bit in the same boat as you, i need a replacement for my aging i7 4770K and was looking at the 5800X3D too. But the change from AM4 to AM5 is holding me back until i know what the price will be + the 7xxxX3D isn't directly on the horizon if i'm correct. Another problem is that new sockets and new chipsets can have some flaws. This means waiting a bit more until things are settled. Same for DDR5 memory.

Going for the 5800X3D means you are on a older system with DDR4 Ram with no upgrade possibility later on but cheaper then the new things that come will come out soon.
Going for an Intel means in general also a new motherboard (because they change sockets almost for each new CPU) but if you go for DDR5 now you can keep that at least for a future upgrade.    

[NightstalkerNOR]

1 hour ago, Lange_666 said:

The 5800X3D will go on an AM4 motherboard, the new 7000 series will need an AM5 one. As far as i know there are no AM4 motherboards that support DDR5 Ram either (AM5 does but will be DDR5 only). So as with almost any new Intel CPU, this time you can't use your old AMD AM4 motherboard for a future upgrade to a 7000 series CPU.

I'm a bit in the same boat as you, i need a replacement for my aging i7 4770K and was looking at the 5800X3D too. But the change from AM4 to AM5 is holding me back until i know what the price will be + the 7xxxX3D isn't directly on the horizon if i'm correct. Another problem is that new sockets and new chipsets can have some flaws. This means waiting a bit more until things are settled. Same for DDR5 memory.

Going for the 5800X3D means you are on a older system with DDR4 Ram with no upgrade possibility later on but cheaper then the new things that come will come out soon.
Going for an Intel means in general also a new motherboard (because they change sockets almost for each new CPU) but if you go for DDR5 now you can keep that at least for a future upgrade.    

So, if I understand correctly, we are talking futureproofing by waiting for the new sockets and ddr5, not necessarily the needed performance available in todays parts?

For example: if the 5800x3d gives 60 fps in VR DCS today, that will not change in the course of the next couple of years? It will still be a very good cpu for simulators, just not the best anymore? It will cost less, and still deliver?

Another example is that I've also seen the benchmarking videos on youtube, and I find it funny how they compare cpus with 3090ti that deliver upwards from 150+fps in a number of games, including msfs. In my world that is a dream, and it seems absurd to me to discuss how the i12700k or 5800x3d compare when they both seem to do significantly well in benchmarking. Then it all comes down to pricing.

To sum up my presumption; "The best cpu" today, will also be very good in 5 years, even though it may not be the best anymore (in a couple of weeks)?

[Lange_666]

I still have my i7 4770K, started out with 16GB RAM of 1600Mhz DDR3 ram and a GTX 780 3GB GPU.
Updated over the years to 32MB 2400Mhz DDR3 ram and GTX 1080Ti 11GB GPU (and a few SSD's to replace the original HD's i had fitted).
But as software progresses, performance declines, with my previous system (i7 950 and GTX 480) the i7 4770K and GTX 780 it went from struggling to get 60 FPS constantly on my previous system to WOW, see how this runs now. And before that it was the same, the i7 950 / GTX480 was WOW compared to my system before that.
Then at a given point the GTX 780 3GB didn't cut it anymore for the same reason and i replaced it with a 1080Ti with the same effect, upping all settings again that i had turned down step by step. But after 4 years of running a 1080Ti, settings needed to be turned down again to keep 60 FPS going on acceptable visual settings mainly in MP and certainly in VR and because i also updated the monitor from 1920x1200 to 2560x1440, it started to show it's age. I now have a 3080Ti fitted but this makes the CPU struggling so i'm at the end of this CPU now.

So if 5800x3D will give 60 FPS today it will also do that in the future "IF" the software visuals don't improve or you don't upgrade the resolution of your screen (or VR set), in other words, if DCS doesn't improve visually and it will, just take the old and new maps into account as example. My previous 1080Ti setup ran perfectly fine on SP Caucasus but struggled on the Syria and Mariana's maps)

If you wait for the newer stuff to arrive, you pay more but for that you get an x % better performance over a currently available system. Both will degrade in time, as software develops, then new, more expensive system will just last a bit longer.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Lange_666

[NightstalkerNOR]

3 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

I still have my i7 4770K, started out with 16GB RAM of 1600Mhz DDR3 ram and a GTX 780 3GB GPU.
Updated over the years to 32MB 2400Mhz DDR3 ram and GTX 1080Ti 11GB GPU (and a few SSD's to replace the original HD's i had fitted).
But as software progresses, performance declines, with my previous system (i7 950 and GTX 480) the i7 4770K and GTX 780 it went from struggling to get 60 FPS constantly on my previous system to WOW, see how this runs now. And before that it was the same, the i7 950 / GTX480 was WOW compared to my system before that.
Then at a given point the GTX 780 3GB didn't cut it anymore for the same reason and i replaced it with a 1080Ti with the same effect, upping all settings again that i had turned down step by step. But after 4 years of running a 1080Ti, settings needed to be turned down again to keep 60 FPS going on acceptable visual settings mainly in MP and certainly in VR and because i also updated the monitor from 1920x1200 to 2560x1440, it started to show it's age. I know have a 3080Ti fitted but this makes the CPU struggling so i'm at the end of this combo now.

So if 5800x3D will give 60 FPS today it will also do that in the future "IF" the software visuals don't improve or you don't upgrade the resolution of your screen (or VR set), in other words, if DCS doesn't improve visually and it will, just take the old and new maps into account as example. My previous 1080Ti setup ran perfectly fine on SP Caucasus but struggled on the Syria and Mariana's maps)

If you wait for the newer stuff to arrive, you pay more but for that you get an x % better performance over a currently available system. Both will degrade in time, as software develops, then new, more expensive system will just last a bit longer.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this! I suspect I am not way off in my thinking then, that it all comes down to when I must switch the parts again. Choosing the 5800x3D will shorten it's lifespan instead of spending a little more with the new tech coming.

Anyways...it will be exciting to see what the actual price and performance will be of the new parts coming. I will wait and see and make a decision after. 

[reece146]

If I was buying "today":

 - Wait for new 7000 series AMD CPU - something 6/12 to 8/16 C/T would probably be my pick depending on price to performance bang f.ior the buck. Implies AM5 mobo ofc.

 - 3090 (Ti?) - prices are dropping daily so stock will dry up shortly I guess. In the real world I'm not sure there is much in it wrt the 3090* vs 3080Ti. 5-10% uplift max? $/bang will dictate. I'm out of the loop on when the next generation AMD GPUs will drop. If it's less than ~6 months away I might be inclined to buy NV today and sell to replace with AMD later. Depends

 - 64+ GB RAM

 - storage to taste. FWIW, I run OS+Steam on a 1TB M2, DCS on separate 1TB M2, DCS OB on a third 1TB M2. Kind of overkill given I never use "regular" DCS.

With 64GB CL14 RAM, fast storage, 11700K and 3070 I never see stutters but this is in pancake mode and I typically have my heavy SP missions running on a separate server machine (10700k, 64GB, M2, yadda, yadda).

I'm generally pro Intel but AMD is the way forward today IMO. 

 

[agrasyuk]

I think your dilemma is very simple. there is really no jungle of CPUs.
12900 is top of the line (today). if you have budget for it you go for it. If it's to expensive you step down to i7. if that's to expensive you step down to i5. or whatever comparable CPU the red side offers. there is no sin in not being able to buy the most expensive thing. it's not wrong to by the CPU that is in your budget.

[BitMaster]

Had he better not asked, now he needs a bottle of wine to digest all this 

[golani79]

I'd wait for the Ryzen 7000 series to see what they can offer in comparison to the i9

 

[Lange_666]

Which i9, the current 12900 series or new still to come 13900 series?
The new Ryzen 7950 might be a tad faster then the 12900 but is probably slower then the 13900.

This way you can wait forever...

[Mars Exulte]

I am primed to upgrade, was putting stuff in the cart when noticed it's less than 10 days to seeing Zen4, so screw it. Might as well wait and see what's up. This other stuff ain't going anywhere, afterall.

[BitMaster]

Indeed, let's wait for reviews with official, off the shelf bought CPU's.

There's some disturning news at guru3d that the 7900X was still slower in Single Thread than a 12700k... if that is true, no gamer will go AMD this round tbh...anyway...couple days and we know.