IT'S ALIVE

[Mars Exulte]

Aorus B550 Elite V2, PhanTeks P300

Ryzen 7 5800x3d + Alseye M120D Plus

PNY XLR8 3090

Patriot Viper 64GB DDR4 CL16 3600mhz

TeamGroup 4TB NVMe

Case Fans from EzDIY

[LucShep]

9 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Aorus B550 Elite V2, PhanTeks P300

Ryzen 7 5800x3d + Alseye M120D Plus

PNY XLR8 3090

Patriot Viper 64GB DDR4 CL16 3600mhz

TeamGroup 4TB NVMe

Case Fans from EzDIY

 

 

That's what I'd call an exemplary system for DCS.    Congrats!

With that said, it will need better airflow from that Phanteks P300 case. 
See if you can get the P300A mesh front panel (it's sold separately, also as an upgrade for your case). As it's mesh, there'll be a lot more air getting in.
 

[BitMaster]

Top Job 

[Mars Exulte]

6 hours ago, LucShep said:

(it's sold separately, also as an upgrade for your case). 

  I did not know that, interesting

[AngleOff66]

Congratulations!

Enjoy

[BitMaster]

Ohhh, Phanteks case....ehhh if that case has an LED controller, DON'T connect it to Gigabyte boards !!!!

THAT was till today the only issue I had with my rig until I found out those 2 are incompatible ( newer Phanteks devices seem to have this fixed ).

They don't show the Gigabyte Logo in that matter, compatible to "most" boards, Asus, MSI...but no GB.

 

If it's connected, it wont boot.

 

EDIT:   yours is a NEW one, it is Gigabyte compatible  and shows the Logo from GB !    anyway, better safe than sorry

Edited October 4, 2022 by BitMaster

[Svsmokey]

Enjoy !

[Mars Exulte]

2 hours ago, BitMaster said:

Ohhh, Phanteks case....ehhh if that case has an LED controller, DON'T connect it to Gigabyte boards !!!!

  I actually disconnected the case RGB cable cause I wasn't using it. Also apparently disconnected the case USB ports, so gonna be going back in for that later.

2 hours ago, BitMaster said:

If it's connected, it wont boot.

  Weird it would do that.

2 hours ago, BitMaster said:

EDIT:   yours is a NEW one, it is Gigabyte compatible  and shows the Logo from GB !    anyway, better safe than sorry

  I've had it for several years now. Originally got as a replacement for a massive full tower that I absolutely didn't need, the P300 had exactly the amount of room necessary for the components I had. And I like the clean, minimalistic look.

9 hours ago, LucShep said:

With that said, it will need better airflow from that Phanteks P300 case. 

 Yep. Runs hot, 75-80 under heavy loads using 3dmark benchmarks. Probably have to look into that some more later.

 

-edit

You wanna know the weirdest part of this upgrade? I forgot to uninstall any drivers or anything, and it booted up anyway, just with a few error messages from some Asus utilities that weren't working anymore. I remember the 90s that wouldn't fly!

The only hitch I've had so far is with the RAM, and I think that miiight be CPU support related. It won't boot at 3600 but will at 3466 or something. It's weird, and it's ''close enough'' so I don't care.

Other than that, I had some clearance issues with that CPU cooler overhanging the primary M2 (I had to ditch the exotic cooler) and the first RAM slot (which fortunately I'm not using anyway).

Edited October 4, 2022 by Mars Exulte

[Mars Exulte]

I finally got around to testing DCS in VR. It has taken eight years (I first had a Oculus DK2) but I am officially satisfied with the results. This is what we always imagined when talking about VR flight.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Mars Exulte

[LucShep]

8 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Yep. Runs hot, 75-80 under heavy loads using 3dmark benchmarks. Probably have to look into that some more later.

Yep, that enclosed front panel is a PITA. You'll need that front mesh panel, believe me.
Later on, consider undervolting the RTX3090... less heat with no perfomance loss (should be even better, really).
 

8 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

The only hitch I've had so far is with the RAM, and I think that miiight be CPU support related. It won't boot at 3600 but will at 3466 or something. It's weird, and it's ''close enough'' so I don't care.

In anycase, try getting into the BIOS and increase just a little the DRAM (memory) voltage, to 1.40v (original XMP/D.O.C.P. profile of that memory is 1.35v), then try again 3600.

I suspect that 0.05v increase will "wake up" that RAM, safely and with no downsides.
You mention that DDR4 RAM is 3600 CL16, which means those are Samsung B-Die and can actually take a lot more than that.  

Edited October 5, 2022 by LucShep

[Mars Exulte]

37 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Yep, that enclosed front panel is a PITA. You'll need that front mesh panel, believe me.

  I'll probably change to a P400 or something similar (only about 3 inches longer/taller) that has mounting points for two more fans in the front and top (total of 6)

37 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Later on, consider undervolting the RTX3090...

  Yeah, I've heard about that. Actually attempted it earlier, but apparently did it wrong, I lost about 20% somehow. Reset it after that and will try to fix it later.

37 minutes ago, LucShep said:

In anycase, try getting into the BIOS and increase just a little the DRAM (memory) voltage, to 1.40v (original XMP/D.O.C.P. profile of that memory is 1.35v), then try again 3600.

  Yeah, it's a new board so everything is different from the one I'm used to (both my last were Asus RoG) so still experimenting. For now it's only about a 50mhz difference or so, so close enough.

[Lurker]

I'm sorry to say this, but you need to fix those thermals to get the most out of that system. Both your card and your CPU are outputting a LOT of heat, which needs to go somewhere, and all those fans (apart from the back-fan) aren't really doing anything. 

I would consider doing two things:

1. Remove the top fan (since it's not really doing anything) and remove the front plate (if that isn't possible then cut it out) so that you have airflow blowing into the front of the case, and being expelled from the top rear behind your CPU. 

2. Invest into a CPU water cooler. But for that you need to have adequate space for its radiator and fan chasis, which I simply don't see in that case. This would mean getting a whole new case and would be an expensive solution, not to mention that it would mean having to rebuild the system from scratch. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Lurker

[Hiob]

36 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm sorry to say this, but you need to fix those thermals to get the most out of that system. Both your card and your CPU are outputting a LOT of heat, which needs to go somewhere, and all those fans (apart from the back-fan) aren't really doing anything. 

I would consider doing two things:

1. Remove the top fan (since it's not really doing anything) and remove the front plate (if that isn't possible then cut it out) so that you have airflow blowing into the front of the case, and being expelled from the top rear behind your CPU. 

2. Invest into a CPU water cooler. But for that you need to have adequate space for its radiator and fan chasis, which I simply don't see in that case. This would mean getting a whole new case and would be an expensive solution, not to mention that it would mean having to rebuild the system from scratch. 

 

CPU Watercooling is rather pointless. Due to those thick heat spreaders the thermal conductivity is lousy and a decent aircooler does the job perfectly. You won't gain noticeable performance. Also - most AIO CPU-Watercoolers are a crappy maintenance nightmare.

100% Agreed on the airflow though. The more the better.

And +1 on undervolting the GPU. Plenty of guides here in the forum and on youtube.

(btw. I happen to run a 5800X3D with an AIO-Watercooler. For space reasons. But I will probably change that again. I also run a 5900X together with a 3080 on a custom waterloop. The latter has profited a bit better from watercooling, but the custom loop has two 560 Rads.....so....)

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hiob

[Lurker]

I have no idea what kind of watercooled solution you have HIOB and how you have it installed, but take it from someone who went from an aircooled solution (on the same CPU) to Watercooled that it made a noticable difference in my thermals. So much so in fact that I've been able to hit a stable 5 Ghz overclock on my CPU. Something that was completely impossible with my previous aircooled solution. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Lurker

[Hiob]

45 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I have no idea what kind of watercooled solution you have HIOB and how you have it installed, but take it from someone who went from an aircooled solution (on the same CPU) to Watercooled that it made a noticable difference in my thermals. So much so in fact that I've been able to hit a stable 5 Ghz overclock on my CPU. Something that was completely impossible with my previous aircooled solution. 

 

I do hit 5000 MHz on my 5900X. But that doesn't give any meaningful performance upflift over the 4900 or so it hit with aircooling and stock settings. I never said, that water has no effect, but that the gains are not very meaningful. Especially compared to the positive effect of watercooling your GPU.  

But anyway. You're entitled to your opinion - no problem. (btw. an i9 doesn't compare very well  to a ryzen cpu in overclocking and cooling behavior. They are completely different designs.)

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hiob

[Mars Exulte]

23 hours ago, Lurker said:

1. Remove the top fan (since it's not really doing anything)

  It's an exhaust. Intake at the front. Exhaust at the rear/top. So yes, it's "doing something".

23 hours ago, Lurker said:

and remove the front plate (if that isn't possible then cut it out) so that you have airflow blowing into the front of the case, and being expelled from the top rear behind your CPU. 

It's not a mesh front, but there are filtered two inch slats at the top and bottom.

23 hours ago, Lurker said:

2. Invest into a CPU water cooler.

  I had one for years. I don't want to use it anymore.

23 hours ago, Lurker said:

But for that you need to have adequate space for its radiator and fan chasis, which I simply don't see in that case.

It can mount a 280mm radiator at the front (technically still can have it in there, I removed it because don't want it).

 

23 hours ago, Lurker said:

This would mean getting a whole new case and would be an expensive solution, not to mention that it would mean having to rebuild the system from scratch. 

  It would indeed be a pain in the ass, but probably only about $150 is you were trying to budget it.

 

21 hours ago, Lurker said:

I have no idea what kind of watercooled solution you have HIOB and how you have it installed, but take it from someone who went from an aircooled solution (on the same CPU) to Watercooled that it made a noticable difference in my thermals. So much so in fact that I've been able to hit a stable 5 Ghz overclock on my CPU. Something that was completely impossible with my previous aircooled solution. 

If paired with the correct fans (high static pressure) and installed correctly, it can help with extreme overclocking. However, a lot of the "gain" people think they see is a result of the room temperature liquid taking time to warm up (which takes longer the larger the reservoir). It depends on specifics of what you're doing and how it's set up.

I don't want to use a radiator anymore, personal preference, and am not overclocking (going to play with undervolting a bit more later in fact). That aside, as long as it's stable and not damaging itself, it's largely moot. 50 or 75, as long as it's within spec it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 It's not a mesh front, but there are filtered two inch slats at the top and bottom.

It would indeed be a pain in the ass, but probably only about $150 is you were trying to budget it.

Take the front panel off your case, just for a test.
I'd almost bet good money that you'll realize the two slats in your current front panel are insufficient for fresh air to get in (too restrictive), as even Phanteks admit it. 
If that solves part of the problem with temps, them maybe get the P300A front mesh panel first (they're sold in most computer stores, other than through their website), to replace that one in yours. Instead of investing right away in a bigger more expensive case, and dealing with all the hassle of moving your whole system (again).

I'd also disagree with those saying that your case fans configuration are not ideal.
I see that you have two fans for "intake" (front) and two "exhaust" (up and rear), and that is perfectly balanced for correct airflow!

Just make sure to create an agressive profile where they ramp up to full speed once things get hot.
If your case fans are connected to the motherboard, you can do that in BIOS, according to CPU temps, along with the CPU cooler fans.
Just for an example, a linear profile where they all ramp up to max when CPU hits 60ºC.

Same thing goes for the RTX3090 GPU.
Try using MSI Afterburner and create an agressive fan curve profile (fan speed vs GPU temp), because the default fans profile always comes way too conservative from factory (they're biased for silence). This is a "must do" these days on most GPUs, and especially so with such a hot one, like that RTX3090 is.
 

2 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

I don't want to use a radiator anymore, personal preference, and am not overclocking (going to play with undervolting a bit more later in fact). That aside, as long as it's stable and not damaging itself, it's largely moot. 50 or 75, as long as it's within spec it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

No need for water-cooling.
But one thing that I've just noticed is that your CPU air-cooler is a single tower type (don't know how many heatpipes). I'm not so sure that it can handle that 5800X3D CPU.

You just need a dual tower air-cooler, and you don't need to overspend. I'd strongly recommend either the Deepcool AK620 or the Scythe Fuma 2 RevB. 
Amazon and most computer stores have them, at 60$ or so.
Of all the air coolers I've used (and I've tried a lot of the stuff out there), I believe these two are the best you can get for the price. And they also fit your case.
Simple to install, good quality construction, reliable, nothing goes wrong. In my experience, they're better than any 240AIO and many 280AIO, with none of the WC/AIO fuss.

Edited October 5, 2022 by LucShep

[BitMaster]

Maybe I missed it and it's written somewhere, but do the 2 fans of the CPU cooler work LEFT-->RIGHT ( the other way round than normal ) or do they push air RIGHT-->LEFT as this would cause a less than optimal airflow with the rear fan?

If your board has a Temp Probe connector, get a Thermistor cable and measure the temp at various places while you game. If the airflow is suboptimal it can lead to dead pockets where you have kind of stale air that actually only gets whirled around but not exchanged.

The CPU cooler might be not enough for heavy all core workloads and stress testing, it lacks the mass and surface vs. a dual tower, but for gaming on a few cores with less than 100% load per core I dont think it matters. Before I would spend money on a DIY loop for the CPU, I would loop the GPU, makes 10x more sense these days. They burn 300w, the CPU is 50-80w, peanuts.

[Mars Exulte]

2 hours ago, LucShep said:

Take the front panel off your case, just for a test.
I'd almost bet good money that you'll realize the two slats in your current front panel are insufficient for fresh air to get in (too restrictive), as even Phanteks admit it. 

  I'm intending to get a new case altogether mostly trying to decide which one. I have two more fans from the set I purchased so I'm aiming for three intake and three exhaust.

2 hours ago, LucShep said:
I'd also disagree with those saying that your case fans configuration are not ideal.
I see that you have two fans for "intake" (front) and two "exhaust" (up and rear), and that is perfectly balanced for correct airflow!

 

Just make sure to create an agressive profile where they ramp up to full speed once things get hot.
If your case fans are connected to the motherboard, you can do that in BIOS, according to CPU temps, along with the CPU cooler fans.
Just for an example, a linear profile where they all ramp up to max when CPU hits 60ºC.

  In testing and gameplay, the CPU seems to be ok for the most part. In fact, that temperature display is clearly decorative as it was earlier reading 90+ when the ACTUAL CPU temp was 45... so wherever it's getting it's number is bogus.

2 hours ago, LucShep said:I'd also disagree with those saying that your case fans configuration are not ideal.I see that you have two fans for "intake" (front) and two "exhaust" (up and rear), and that is perfectly balanced for correct airflow!

Same thing goes for the RTX3090 GPU.

  I'm going to undervolt it, soon as I figure out how to actually do that correctly, as I botched my first attempt.

2 hours ago, LucShep said:I'd also disagree with those saying that your case fans configuration are not ideal.I see that you have two fans for "intake" (front) and two "exhaust" (up and rear), and that is perfectly balanced for correct airflow!

You just need a dual tower air-cooler, and you don't need to overspend.

  It's a single, large tower with dual 1700rpm fans in a push pull config. It's basically forcefeeding that rearmost case fan.

2 hours ago, BitMaster said:

Maybe I missed it and it's written somewhere, but do the 2 fans of the CPU cooler work LEFT-->RIGHT ( the other way round than normal ) or do they push air RIGHT-->LEFT as this would cause a less than optimal airflow with the rear fan?

They're push/pull fans forcefeeding the rearmost case fan.

 

Appreciate the feedback guys. I'm as mentioned earlier, I'll be replacing the case shortly and increasing the number of fans, as the temps are higher than expected. CPU seems to be fine outside stress testing, but GPU is definitely running hot. I've only had a few hours to mess with it, so I'll be getting after it more in the near future.

[LucShep]

2 minutes ago, Mars Exulte said:

  I'm intending to get a new case altogether mostly trying to decide which one. I have two more fans from the set I purchased so I'm aiming for three intake and three exhaust.

Appreciate the feedback guys. I'm as mentioned earlier, I'll be replacing the case shortly and increasing the number of fans, as the temps are higher than expected. CPU seems to be fine outside stress testing, but GPU is definitely running hot. I've only had a few hours to mess with it, so I'll be getting after it more in the near future.

If I'm allowed the suggestion for PC case -  Lian Li Lancool III:  https://lian-li.com/product/lancool-iii/

[Mars Exulte]

48 minutes ago, LucShep said:

If I'm allowed the suggestion for PC case -  Lian Li Lancool III:  https://lian-li.com/product/lancool-iii/

I like the hinged panels! Yeah, I've already decided I need to replace the case, and I've already noted I can buy multiple cases with all the fans preinstalled, and if I'm making these changes I might as well get rid of the cooler (with the evidently useless thermal readout) which will let me put my M2 heatsink back on (which wouldn't clear this cooler).

Goddammit. This was supposed to be a budget build reusing as much stuff as possible and now I'm here... 

[Mars Exulte]

Well, figured if I'm gonna have to rebuild might as well go all the way. I'm returning the cooler and case fans and getting one that comes with all the fans. So I chose the Kedier C570.

Will have a new 240mm AIO to eliminate the clearance issues I had with the Alseye, and white braided cable extensions for the PSU so I won't have that ugly daisy chain stuff hanging down.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Mars Exulte

[Lurker]

As long as the airflow is better, all the more power to you. 

In a perfect world I would leave my case wide open, and remove all case fans, but that leaves a lot of room for accidents (for one my rabbit might get inside lol) and dust, and hair which would need to be cleaned out like ALL the time. 

This is why I prefer large cases which have meshed intakes, which help immensely with dust which gathers on them. For reference I use the older generation of BeQuiet's Full Tower case. I can recommend them for everyone: https://www.bequiet.com/en/case

[BitMaster]

Looking at those unboxing videos for 4090's...whatever case you get, GET A BIG ONE if this trend keeps going.

I had to laugh...

 

[Hiob]

20 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 

  I'm going to undervolt it, soon as I figure out how to actually do that correctly, as I botched my first attempt.

 

In this thread there is a detailed instructions on how to do it and some videos linked. It’s actually easy af and done in a couple of minutes (without the stability testing). I can guide you through it if you like, just pm me if you need/want assistance.