Any speculation about Pico 4

[Doncho]

9 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Quick update, someone has found a way for the Pico to communicate via Virtual Desktop using the USB cable.

Can you share more info on this developpement please?

[Lensman]

16 hours ago, Bearskin said:

5 Days with my Pico 4 I have tested all my games apart from Assetto Corsa. I have a VDSL combo, with Virtual desktop set to 90 FPS, medium graphics using HEVC, SSW on, and Steam VR @ 100% I am getting 866 Mb/s which is running Elite dangerous at Epic VR settings @ 90 FPS in Virtual desktop, Il2 at Ultra settings @ 90 FPS in Virtual desktop, and DCS world with 1.0 PD High settings 2xMSAA and 8X AF @ 80 to 90 FPS in Virtual Desktop depending on the Map, (I cannot get the Apache to run well on any setting), all running smooth, no stutter, all clear and bright. ACC runs well but doesn't look the best with ghosting and it is too sharp, RF2, AMS2 and F122 are all 90 FPS no stutter and all clear and bright. 

I tried the Pico Streaming software both wireless and USB, picture is too dark, latency too high so it needs a bit of work, I tried RF2 55FPS, and ACC was too dark and a worse picture, so I won't be using the Streaming software for a while, hopefully Pico will work on it. 

I leave my USB cable in whilst I am playing so it gives the batteries a bit of a charge while I am playing.

These are just my experiences with the Pico 4 and the VR games I play, personally I am glad I bought the Pico as it runs the games just as good as my Rift but with 2160 x 2160 resolution and a huge, sweet spot. YMMV 

 

Edit

Just to confirm (as some people tend not to read posts before answering), I am using Virtual Desktop and Virtual Desktop only with the settings above. My USB cable is plugged in for battery charge only.

 

Just got the Pico 4 too. I have been using a Quest 2 for all of my PCVR games including DCS. I use Oculus Air Link exclusively. DCS looks very promising via virtual desktop, more testing to follow.

However, for the life of me, I can't get AMS2 to run via virtual desktop. I can set up a race, but as soon as I click to go to the cockpit the game freezes. This was the same experience with the Quest via Virtual desktop which is why I used Air Link. How are you launching AMS2.

Sorry to divert from DCS but you're the first person I have seen who has successfully launched AMS2 this way.

[Bearskin]

Hey Lensman, I open up Steam on my PC (I don't have it set to start with windows), put on my headset and then open Virtual Desktop on my Headset, (I have Virtual Desktop set to open with windows. you probably know these things, but I am just going through my process) if Virtual desktop menu screen disappears press the button with the 3 lines on it on the left-hand controller to bring it back into view, then I click start Steam VR, then the press the button on the left controller with the 3 lines on it and a window opens on my headset with the games showing, I then just point and click with the controller to whichever game I want to play.

Or same process, open Steam in windows, put on headset, open Virtual Desktop, if Virtual desktop menu screen stays on press the button with the 3 lines to make it disappear so you can just see your normal desktop, then I point to the steam icon on my taskbar and click the controller, it doesn't bring up steam just a pop-up menu, click on library with the controller, which brings up steam in your library mode, then click on AMS2 then play, then choose launch with Steam VR mode.

Hope you like the Pico as much as I 

Edit

I had the same problem with F1 22 (bought on Origin) it would start then freeze before I could do anything, I did the drastic thing of removing all oculus stuff off my PC and now it works. One thing you could try is go into documents, AMS2 and you will see 2 graphics configs, one for oculusdx11 and one for openxrdx11, try deleting the oculus one.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by Bearskin

[Bearskin]

4 hours ago, Doncho said:

Can you share more info on this developpement please?

Here's something I found

• You can get USB Tethering Enabled on the Pico 4 and use Virtual Desktop wired! This really helped shave a few ms off of latency and really helped reliability. The trick is to get your Pico 4 into USB debugging mode (tapping the software version a few times, then going to Developer in the Pico 4). Then, connect a USB 3.0 cable and run this adb command:
  adb shell am start -n com.android.settings/.TetherSettings && adb shell input keyevent 20 && adb shell input keyevent 20 && adb shell input keyevent KEYCODE_ENTER && sleep 2 && adb shell input keyevent 4
  That will enable USB tethering, which Windows 10 should see a new network is connected. Virtual Desktop will prioritize this connection -- you can even turn off wireless after connecting with Virtual Desktop to save on some battery. I recommend putting that adb command in a .bat file to make it super easy to apply.

[Lensman]

1 hour ago, Bearskin said:

Hey Lensman, I open up Steam on my PC, put on my headset and then open Virtual Desktop on my Headset, (I have Virtual Desktop set to open with windows. you probably know these things, but I am just going through my process) if Virtual desktop menu screen disappears press the button with the 3 lines on it on the left-hand controller to bring it back into view, then I click start Steam VR, then the press the button on the left controller with the 3 lines on it and a window opens on my headset with the games showing, I then just point and click with the controller to whichever game I want to play.

Or same process, open Steam in windows, put on headset, open Virtual Desktop, if Virtual desktop menu screen stays on press the button with the 3 lines to make it disappear so you can just see your normal desktop, then I point to the steam icon on my taskbar and click the controller, it doesn't bring up steam just a pop-up menu, click on library with the controller, which brings up steam in your library mode, then click on AMS2 then play, then choose launch with Steam VR mode.

Hope you like the Pico as much as I do.

Cheers Bearskin ! I'll try your suggestions and report back. 

Yes, I'm enjoying the Pico 4, it's a nice step up from the Quest 2, which is an awesome Headset anyway once you get it all tweaked

[KoN]

On 10/9/2022 at 10:39 PM, Mr_sukebe said:

It’s a WMR headset, ie the same as the HP reverb, so yes it’ll run OpenXR.

 

You’re not wrong about the lack of DP. What we don’t know is what data bandwidth it might be able to stream and whether it can avoid the need for compression (unlikely).  I’m just hoping that the (probable) compression is not as bad as the quest 2.

MRTV suggested that they’d be running a direct comparison against the HP G2 in the near future, which I’ll definitely be interested in.

 

On a positive note, the feedback about the pancake lenses seems to suggest that they’re a good step up from the fresnel lenses, with less weight, reduced god days and a larger sweet spot.

I'm Guessing your be flying DCS with it . lol . 

A nice thread would be welcome . 

[Mr_sukebe]

31 minutes ago, KoN said:

I'm Guessing your be flying DCS with it . lol . 

A nice thread would be welcome . 

 

Nope.  Have returned mine.

Good:

 - Light

 - Pancake lenses, which had a better FOV than the Rift S that I currently have and also a better sweetspot

 - Running Virtual Desktop, I was getting a better image quality than the Rift S.  Initially, that was with Wifi.  With the above mentioned workaround I had it running via a USB cable, which was a certified 3.1 gen 2 cable, plugged directly into a 3.1 socket on my motherboard

 - The controllers were "ok".  Can't say that I really cared about them, as I fly using a HOTAS, but it's worth mentioning

 

Bad:

 - I didn't find it as comfortable as the Rift S.  The face interface was just a little hard for my liking

 - With the use of a USB instead of a DP, it means that instead of giving the unit video data, that you're having your PC "encode" the video signal, then having to decode it within the headset.  That adds a little latency.

 - The most important thing for me was that I found even with a USB cable (though it was better than wifi), that I found the occasional "lag spike" much more apparent, obvious and jarring than with the Rift S. 

 

So in summary, it's pretty good for the price, with genuinely good visuals.  I've never used a G2, so can't comment on a comparison.

However, I just couldn't put up with the lag spikes.  Simply too annoying.  It's possible that it's my PC that's the cause, but as I find them acceptable on my Rift S, then I'm going to wait.

 

On a positive note, the widescale adopting of eye tracking is starting to happen and the potential for foveated rendering is likely within DCS at some point.  Apparently, it can already be done in FS2020!

So I'm hoping for a headset with the same pancake lenses, a DP connection and eye tracking.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mr_sukebe

[Doncho]

2 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

 

Nope.  Have returned mine.

Good:

 - Light

 - Pancake lenses, which had a better FOV than the Rift S that I currently have and also a better sweetspot

 - Running Virtual Desktop, I was getting a better image quality than the Rift S.  Initially, that was with Wifi.  With the above mentioned workaround I had it running via a USB cable, which was a certified 3.1 gen 2 cable, plugged directly into a 3.1 socket on my motherboard

 - The controllers were "ok".  Can't say that I really cared about them, as I fly using a HOTAS, but it's worth mentioning

 

Bad:

 - I didn't find it as comfortable as the Rift S.  The face interface was just a little hard for my liking

 - With the use of a USB instead of a DP, it means that instead of giving the unit video data, that you're having your PC "encode" the video signal, then having to decode it within the headset.  That adds a little latency.

 - The most important thing for me was that I found even with a USB cable (though it was better than wifi), that I found the occasional "lag spike" much more apparent, obvious and jarring than with the Rift S. 

 

So in summary, it's pretty good for the price, with genuinely good visuals.  I've never used a G2, so can't comment on a comparison.

However, I just don't wish to put up with the lag spikes.  Simply too annoying.  It's possible that it's my PC that's the cause, but as I find them acceptable on my Rift S, then I'm going to wait.

 

On a positive note, the widescale adopting of eye tracking is starting to happen and the potential for foveated rendering is likely within DCS at some point.  Apparently, it can already be done in FS2020!

So I'm hoping for a headset with the same pancake lenses, a DP connection and eye tracking.

 

 

The DP connexion, unfortunately, seems to be disappearing from newer headsets. Unless HP comes up with a Reverb G3, I don't have much hope, at least not within my reasonable working class budget.

[KoN]

I think the way forward is a HP G2 with openXR .

im looking now on eBay' . lol 

Edited October 26, 2022 by KoN

[RealDCSpilot]

Here are some more useful links:

The trick with USB tethering works really well, with a 10G USB3 cable you can get stable 1200 Mbps main throughput that won't vary like a WiFi connection. To easily switch to USB tethering, use the link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PUTpT9boTKssDXQ2qUCLxOKM3LPxQtlA/view?usp=sharing

Install the .apk and you get normal Android options. Important after this, is to check Windows network settings and set this new network to private. Virtual Desktop will switch to this connection after a short moment and you can disable Wifi on your Pico 4.

Edited November 3, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[Johnny Dioxin]

Pico 4 is back in stock at Amazon UK

[vladimusmaximus]

So I'm still a little confused. Have a Pico 4 on pre-order but considering cancelling for Quest Pro.

I wasn't a huge fan of the G2. Horrible sweet-spot and just worst tracking, and annoying hard cable.
Obviously the OpenXR workaround was great, and so was not having to worry about charging.

Hmm.

[Gruman]

Anybody here got the Pico 4? Lot of coverage about other titles, but not much for DCS. Especially the topic of "Usability" is never covered.

Thanks

Edited November 15, 2022 by Gruman

[despinoza]

7 hours ago, Gruman said:

Anybody here got the Pico 4? Lot of coverage about other titles, but not much for DCS. Especially the topic of "Usability" is never covered.

Thanks

 

owner of a G2 and a P4 here. In summary. the G2 is still the king in a budget for DCS

P4 lenses are amazing and it has a little more fov than the G2 but.. has some warping when i move my head around giving me a headache also latency is too notizable and the compression is there ruining the hi res panels. Performance is maybe 20% worse than the G2 with openxr also and the G2, cause it uses DP, looks better.

can´t compare to the Q2 cause i don´t have one

[Mr_sukebe]

Here's the response from Neo ref a query that I'd dropped them about support for OpenXR:

==============================================================

Thank you for contacting our PICO customer service, we appreciate your suggestions.

An exact date for the release of the collaboration with OpenXR  is not yet available.

We have sent your suggestions to our internal developers department, we are always happy to receive new ideas.

==============================================================

I find OpenXR amazingly useful, and wouldn't be without it now.

 

 

[vladimusmaximus]

On 11/3/2022 at 4:25 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

Here are some more useful links:

The trick with USB tethering works really well, with a 10G USB3 cable you can get stable 1200 Mbps main throughput that won't vary like a WiFi connection. To easily switch to USB tethering, use the link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PUTpT9boTKssDXQ2qUCLxOKM3LPxQtlA/view?usp=sharing

Install the .apk and you get normal Android options. Important after this, is to check Windows network settings and set this new network to private. Virtual Desktop will switch to this connection after a short moment and you can disable Wifi on your Pico 4.

 

Can you please explain this more? Is this APK for the Pico 4? What does it do exactly? Is USB Tethered really that much better than Wifi? Is the compression better? I've got a steady 1200MB over Wifi 6 connection.

How are people running stand-alone DCS over Pico 4? Are you guys running through Oculus and or SteamVR run-time. Using OpenFSR if so?

I got it working pretty well through Virtual-Desktop. I ordered a cable to try running tethered. I think it looks decent. Obviously not as great as the G2, but I hated the G2 in every other way it was a dumb headset with 0 sweet-spot and the worst tracking on earth.

I'm really hoping I can get DCS to run decent though as /w OpenXR runtime it was really amazing.

Edited November 16, 2022 by vladimusmaximus

[Gruman]

10 hours ago, despinoza said:

owner of a G2 and a P4 here. In summary. the G2 is still the king in a budget for DCS

P4 lenses are amazing and it has a little more fov than the G2 but.. has some warping when i move my head around giving me a headache also latency is too notizable and the compression is there ruining the hi res panels. Performance is maybe 20% worse than the G2 with openxr also and the G2, cause it uses DP, looks better.

can´t compare to the Q2 cause i don´t have one

Thanks. Coming from a CV1, Rift-S the G2 was a letdown when I received the device after preordering it. Still have it, but not using it much (With the Rift-S I was 100% in VR).
Stuff that I hate about the G2, tiny sweetspot, anoying cable, check cable errors (V2 Cable), WMR (Which is solved by OpenXR obviously). I feel like warping is also in the Reverb G2 noticable. I have the counterweights, VR Cover Interface, Frankenstein FOV Mod and all the other "QOL-Mods" which didnt help much.
 

Just looking for an alternative without spending more than 1000$. 

[Bearskin]

21 hours ago, Gruman said:

Anybody here got the Pico 4? Lot of coverage about other titles, but not much for DCS. Especially the topic of "Usability" is never covered.

Thanks

 

Hey Gruman, the usability of the Pico 4 is spot on in DCS. I use Virtual Desktop and it worked straight away. as simple as my Rift when I first used it. If you prefer the Pico Streaming software, then it takes a few times to get working (in my case anyway) as Steam keeps saying it cannot find a headset. I tried USBc tethered and wireless through the Pico Streaming software and it is OK when Steam finally picks up the headset. I have had to drop Steam VR to 60% to fly the Apache and in game IPD to 1.0, but I can have Steam at 100% with any other module. It shows 90 FPS in VD and 45 FPS in game, no lagg, no ghosting and no noticeable latency for me, if I turn my head quickly from side to side, I am talking whiplash speed, then I do get a bit of black creeping in at the edge of my screen. I have only tried the free flights in the modules I have, as I don't fly DCS much anymore. 

Just for reference, I have a MSI 2080 Duke OC, and I run VD on high setting, 100 MP/s and SSW always enabled. It runs at 866 Mb/s wireless. When I do the free flights, even though I have reduced in game IPD, MSAA, A/F, Textures, well basically every setting going to get a decent framerate, it still looks clearer and better than the Rift. I also formatted my computer to get rid of all Oculus stuff. Only downside is star wars squadrons doesn't run through VD anymore as I think it needs Oculus runtime, but it runs through the Pico streaming software.

I guess buying the Pico is the same as everything else (was it made on a Friday afternoon), I see a few people on sites complaining about ghosting, there is a bit on the Pico home screen for me, but Elite Dangerous, in space, where you would think there would be ghosting as all your surrounding is black, there is no ghosting at all. In fact I have not seen ghosting in any game. It does take a while to get the best Frame rate as you think turning down everything will make it look crap, but surprisingly as I said it still looks crisper, sharper and clearer than my Rift.

 

[Gruman]

Hey Bearskin

Thanks for the Feedback. When you talk about the Rift, are you referencing Rift CV1 or Rift-S? Because the difference is quite large :).
But it doesnt sound too bad. And there is 30 days return on Amazon (even for me here in Switzerland), so I might give it a go.

Thanks

[despinoza]

5 hours ago, Gruman said:

Thanks. Coming from a CV1, Rift-S the G2 was a letdown when I received the device after preordering it. Still have it, but not using it much (With the Rift-S I was 100% in VR).
Stuff that I hate about the G2, tiny sweetspot, anoying cable, check cable errors (V2 Cable), WMR (Which is solved by OpenXR obviously). I feel like warping is also in the Reverb G2 noticable. I have the counterweights, VR Cover Interface, Frankenstein FOV Mod and all the other "QOL-Mods" which didnt help much.
 

Just looking for an alternative without spending more than 1000$. 

Warping in the G2 for me at least is minimal and only appears in the far edges, The P4 in other hand is really present and start aroung midway to the edge making it really anoying and for me, it gave me headaches.

 I also bought the P4 searching for an alternative to G2, but belive me that the P4 is not the budget replacement, the lack of DP buries it. 

[vladimusmaximus]

2 hours ago, despinoza said:

Warping in the G2 for me at least is minimal and only appears in the far edges, The P4 in other hand is really present and start aroung midway to the edge making it really anoying and for me, it gave me headaches.

 I also bought the P4 searching for an alternative to G2, but belive me that the P4 is not the budget replacement, the lack of DP buries it. 

The warping gave me a headache as well. It was very frustrating, i've never experienced eye-strain before and I've had a Vive, Quest 2 and G2.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

5 hours ago, Bearskin said:

Hey Gruman, the usability of the Pico 4 is spot on in DCS. I use Virtual Desktop and it worked straight away. as simple as my Rift when I first used it. If you prefer the Pico Streaming software, then it takes a few times to get working (in my case anyway) as Steam keeps saying it cannot find a headset. I tried USBc tethered and wireless through the Pico Streaming software and it is OK when Steam finally picks up the headset. I have had to drop Steam VR to 60% to fly the Apache and in game IPD to 1.0, but I can have Steam at 100% with any other module. It shows 90 FPS in VD and 45 FPS in game, no lagg, no ghosting and no noticeable latency for me, if I turn my head quickly from side to side, I am talking whiplash speed, then I do get a bit of black creeping in at the edge of my screen. I have only tried the free flights in the modules I have, as I don't fly DCS much anymore. 

Just for reference, I have a MSI 2080 Duke OC, and I run VD on high setting, 100 MP/s and SSW always enabled. It runs at 866 Mb/s wireless. When I do the free flights, even though I have reduced in game IPD, MSAA, A/F, Textures, well basically every setting going to get a decent framerate, it still looks clearer and better than the Rift. I also formatted my computer to get rid of all Oculus stuff. Only downside is star wars squadrons doesn't run through VD anymore as I think it needs Oculus runtime, but it runs through the Pico streaming software.

I guess buying the Pico is the same as everything else (was it made on a Friday afternoon), I see a few people on sites complaining about ghosting, there is a bit on the Pico home screen for me, but Elite Dangerous, in space, where you would think there would be ghosting as all your surrounding is black, there is no ghosting at all. In fact I have not seen ghosting in any game. It does take a while to get the best Frame rate as you think turning down everything will make it look crap, but surprisingly as I said it still looks crisper, sharper and clearer than my Rift.

 

Looks like I should take back my previous comments and jump to Pico 4 instead, which is controlled by yet another social media overload...

So I should get the Steam version of VD for Pico 4, shouldn't I? Thanks in advanced.

[Mr_sukebe]

3 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Looks like I should take back my previous comments and jump to Pico 4 instead, which is controlled by yet another social media overload...

So I should get the Steam version of VD for Pico 4, shouldn't I? Thanks in advanced.

You’ll need to buy VD on the Neo store as it installs directly into the headset.  Don’t buy the Steam version as it won’t work.  No clues as to how I found that out…

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks. I think I better stick with the cable for now. I guess my USB-C cable with the Quest2 still works. Edit: looks like I still need VD...

I have a laptop of this spec:

Processor    11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11800H @ 2.30GHz   2.30 GHz
Installed RAM    32.0 GB
GPU is RTX-3080 laptop

I wonder if this would be easier to "run" than the Quest2.

Also, a bit of concern regarding lack of OpenXR which I very much enjoy.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Bearskin]

I am coming from a CV1 Gruman, and yes, the clarity is in a different class with the Pico, I have read that there isnt much difference between the Pico and Quest 2 though 

Flight guy, as Mr Sukabe says you need to buy VD through the downloaded Pico app on your mobile phone and install it to your headset, I have seen people say they have sideloaded the store purchasing app onto their headset to bypass the mobile phone app. Mainly for people in America where the mobile phone app doesn't work. This is a reply I had to the same question

 

Virtual desktop on Steam simply sends an image of your desktop into your SteamVR HMD. It was also one of the best VR media players back in the early days, though I think Heresphere has it beat today. This wireless tethering was never the original intent behind Virtual Desktop and when first introduced for the Quest caused a bit of a quarrel between the developer, the users and Facebook:
 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Bearskin