Correct FOV

[Gary]

Ok - something that has puzzled me for a while and I suspect related to the copious discussions regarding spotting (not the only reason though) is setting the correct and acurate FOV in the cockpit view.

I understand it might change subltly for each module but can anyone who knows for sure give me some idea of the correct FOV setting for the Harrier pit please? - I've watched a number of youtube videos but these quite often contain conflicting opinions.

Surely there is a number (or very small range) that is definatively correct?

Ultimately I want to set my FOV so that it matches very closely to that of a pilot who is actually sitting in his seat (in terms of visable guages) and the outside world being correctly sized as per real life. I will of course still use the zoom as needed but at least i know what the usual default should be for normal flight and transitions etc.

Regards,

Gary

[Shadow KT]

Check this out. Might give you a perspective. It cannot directly answer your question, but what you are looking for depends on actual head position, which sometime might not be correct in DCS by default, or might differ from pilot to pilot IRL.
 

 

[Dragon1-1]

It will also depend on the aircraft in question. A Ju-88 and He-111s from the book are midsize bombers (about long as a modern jet, but with wider wings) painted in a dark color. A dark aircraft will be easier to see than a white one, which will in turn be easier to see than one in a modern lo-vis paint scheme.

Can someone try this mission in VR? I don't have the WWII assets nor the map at the moment (planning to buy both at some point in the future, but I need to upgrade my SSD first).

[Kang]

One of the reasons you are unlikely to find 'the ultimate answer' to this question somewhere is that a lot of it depends on your personal setup.

How big is your screen? How far away from it are you sitting, when in a reasonably neutral position?

By measuring the angle between the left and right edge of your screen from where you sit, you can set this up to look like 1:1 scale. The problem with that is, that it will be like looking at the world through a tank window all the time, so most people prefer a slightly wider FOV.

[Art-J]

7 hours ago, Gary said:

Surely there is a number (or very small range) that is definatively correct?

Surely NO, there isn't!

If I understand correctly, You think about adjusting FOV to such a value that will scale the instruments to roughly the same size as if you saw them while sitting in real cockpit (with external world following the same principle). The problem is, the value is going to be radically different for someone who uses 16:9 1440p 27" monitor vs someone who uses 4k ultra-widescreen vs someone who uses 55" TV vs others... Not to mention the distance between player's eyes and monitor surface, which is also a  variable factor.

There are plenty of articles and vids explaining how to calculate "real scale" FOV for racing and flight sims and they all use aforementioned data as required inputs. Phil's vid above touches the subject. Be careful what you wish for, though. As Kang pointed, scaling up reduces FOV and you might end up getting a "binocular" perspective with true objects size but limited side view.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Art-J

[Gary]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It will also depend on the aircraft in question. A Ju-88 and He-111s from the book are midsize bombers (about long as a modern jet, but with wider wings) painted in a dark color. A dark aircraft will be easier to see than a white one, which will in turn be easier to see than one in a modern lo-vis paint scheme.

Can someone try this mission in VR? I don't have the WWII assets nor the map at the moment (planning to buy both at some point in the future, but I need to upgrade my SSD first).

I understand the comment that it will depend on the airframe - the rest of your reply seems to suggest my question was related to spotting - which it wasn't.

Thanks though anyway.

1 hour ago, Kang said:

One of the reasons you are unlikely to find 'the ultimate answer' to this question somewhere is that a lot of it depends on your personal setup.

How big is your screen? How far away from it are you sitting, when in a reasonably neutral position?

By measuring the angle between the left and right edge of your screen from where you sit, you can set this up to look like 1:1 scale. The problem with that is, that it will be like looking at the world through a tank window all the time, so most people prefer a slightly wider FOV.

Ok - that makes sense. I'm sort of getting my head around the issue now and probably explains why I had been confused. Thank you!

56 minutes ago, Art-J said:

Surely NO, there isn't!

If I understand correctly, You think about adjusting FOV to such a value that will scale the instruments to roughly the same size as if you saw them while sitting in real cockpit (with external world following the same principle). The problem is, the value is going to be radically different for someone who uses 16:9 1440p 27" monitor vs someone who uses 4k ultra-widescreen vs someone who uses 55" TV vs others... Not to mention the distance between player's eyes and monitor surface, which is also a  variable factor.

There are plenty of articles and vids explaining how to calculate "real scale" FOV for racing and flight sims and they all use aforementioned data as required inputs. Phil's vid above touches the subject. Be careful what you wish for, though. As Kang pointed, scaling up reduces FOV and you might end up getting a "binocular" perspective with true objects size but limited side view.

 

Arty,

Yes - I had thought that adjusting the FOV to that of what a real pilot might see was the answer. I now understand the my personal set up has a significent impact on this AND my ultimately my playing experience too. Thank you too for helping me get my head around the issue!!

[Dragon1-1]

Actually, I was referring to visibility, I was responding to the post above mine. The question of 1:1 FOV depends on your hardware, and it's fairly easy to calculate. If you want the monitor to be a "window" into the sim, you want the FOV to be equal to its angular size as seen from where you're sitting. Draw a line (using a piece of stiff wire, for example) from the leftmost and rightmost sides of the monitor to the top of your head, and then measure the angle between those lines. Depending on your setup, it'll come out either small or smaller.

[ThorBrasil]

15 hours ago, Gary said:

Ok - something that has puzzled me for a while and I suspect related to the copious discussions regarding spotting (not the only reason though) is setting the correct and acurate FOV in the cockpit view.

I understand it might change subltly for each module but can anyone who knows for sure give me some idea of the correct FOV setting for the Harrier pit please? - I've watched a number of youtube videos but these quite often contain conflicting opinions.

Surely there is a number (or very small range) that is definatively correct?

Ultimately I want to set my FOV so that it matches very closely to that of a pilot who is actually sitting in his seat (in terms of visable guages) and the outside world being correctly sized as per real life. I will of course still use the zoom as needed but at least i know what the usual default should be for normal flight and transitions etc.

Regards,

Gary

I've also tried to find out, but the answer is the same as everyone else said here. Now if you want to know the gaming industry standard FOV on 16:9 monitor is 90º and 21:9 monitor is 105º (21:9 Monitor has to add 15 degrees to 16:9 in DCS World. X+15º) . Put the value at 16:9 vertical on this site and the same value at 21:9. You will see that there is a difference of 15º from 16:9 to 21:9. Of course if you use a 21:9 monitor.
https://themetalmuncher.github.io/fov-calc/
https://andyf.me/fovcalc.html
 

Edited October 30, 2022 by ThorBrasil

[Gary]

4 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

I've also tried to find out, but the answer is the same as everyone else said here. Now if you want to know the gaming industry standard FOV on 16:9 monitor is 90º and 21:9 monitor is 105º (21:9 Monitor has to add 15 degrees to 16:9 in DCS World. X+15º) . Put the value at 16:9 vertical on this site and the same value at 21:9. You will see that there is a difference of 15º from 16:9 to 21:9. Of course if you use a 21:9 monitor.
https://themetalmuncher.github.io/fov-calc/
https://andyf.me/fovcalc.html
 

 

Thank you so much for your help.

Unfortunately my monitor aspect in DCS is reported as being 43:18 so the numbers above don't really help me for my set up.

I have now added my particular details below just in case one of the very helpful community members here can offer some tailored advice for me specifically.

Monitor is a 34" wide curved screen display.

My eyes are approx 24" from the screen

I play at a resolution of 3440 x 1440 (43:18)

Not sure this bit matters but I also use Tobii 5 head tracking (which I think is great btw)

Any further guidence would be most welcome - and thanks again to those who have replied.

Regards,

Gary

[BuzzU]

We have the FOV adjustment in auto racing sims too. When I set it exactly how it should be for my setup I can't drive the car and it looks nothing like real life.

I set it so it looks right to me. Forget all the formulas. I'll do the same thing in DCS.

[Gary]

7 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

We have the FOV adjustment in auto racing sims too. When I set it exactly how it should be for my setup I can't drive the car and it looks nothing like real life.

I set it so it looks right to me. Forget all the formulas. I'll do the same thing in DCS.

I suspect that is very good advice - thank you.

[Hiob]

21 hours ago, Gary said:

Ok - something that has puzzled me for a while and I suspect related to the copious discussions regarding spotting (not the only reason though) is setting the correct and acurate FOV in the cockpit view.

I understand it might change subltly for each module but can anyone who knows for sure give me some idea of the correct FOV setting for the Harrier pit please? - I've watched a number of youtube videos but these quite often contain conflicting opinions.

Surely there is a number (or very small range) that is definatively correct?

Ultimately I want to set my FOV so that it matches very closely to that of a pilot who is actually sitting in his seat (in terms of visable guages) and the outside world being correctly sized as per real life. I will of course still use the zoom as needed but at least i know what the usual default should be for normal flight and transitions etc.

Regards,

Gary

When you do the math, it's pretty simple. When the width of your monitor equals the distance from your head, the "correct" FOV is 60(!)
From there it is just rule of proportion. Double the width of your screen or half the viewing distance, doubles the "correct" FOV.

Imagine looking out of a narrow window and stepping further back or forward. The closer you are, the wider your outside view will become. Your monitor is nothing but a window in the virtual world of DCS.

When the resulting FOV seems too close to the front dash, check your actual seating/head position in the cockpit. Some default views are way off.

 

This all from a technical point of view. If it is useful to you is a different story. I prefer a narrower FOV, close to the calculations above, but I have a large screen.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Hiob

[ThorBrasil]

1 hour ago, Gary said:

Thank you so much for your help.

Unfortunately my monitor aspect in DCS is reported as being 43:18 so the numbers above don't really help me for my set up.

I have now added my particular details below just in case one of the very helpful community members here can offer some tailored advice for me specifically.

Monitor is a 34" wide curved screen display.

My eyes are approx 24" from the screen

I play at a resolution of 3440 x 1440 (43:18)

Not sure this bit matters but I also use Tobii 5 head tracking (which I think is great btw)

Any further guidence would be most welcome - and thanks again to those who have replied.

Regards,

Gary

According to the data you provided, the "recommended" fov is 66 degrees at the 24 inch distance or 61 cm for the 34 inch monitor with an aspect ratio of 43:18. I recommend you use the FOV of 107 degrees which is equivalent to the industry 90 degrees on the 16:9 monitor.

For you to do the conversion, you have to compare the FOV Vertical. The horizontal FOV is what will vary according to the type of Aspect Ratio of each monitor. The industry standard is 16:9. There the games are always at the correct 90 degrees. There are games like DCS where it doesn't correct the Aspect Ratio of each monitor and 90 degrees may not be correct. That's why you always have to check.

16:9 monitor = 90 degrees,
21:9 monitor = 105 degrees which is equivalent to 90 degrees in 16:9 and 73 degrees in 4:3.

Games that don't make the correction. Example: DCS World, X-Plane, Hell let Loose, Squad among others.
Game that makes the correction. Insurgency Sandstorm, rFactor 2 among others.
Old games that were created at a time when 16:9 monito did not exist. Euro Truck Simulator and Amarican Truck Simulator. He uses the Aspect Ratio 4:3 because that was what existed at the time.

I like to leave a default FOV for all my games. If I use 90, then everyone has to agree.

The site I used to do the conversion was https://andyf.me/fovcalc.html

Edited October 30, 2022 by ThorBrasil

[Gary]

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone for their help and advice on this topic. It is very much appreciated.

Indeed, what is technically correct and what works in DCS for gameplay / personal circumstances requires some concessions and adjustments.

I've now settled (I think) on a FOV for me of 95 - this enables me to read the MFD's without the need to zoom in - unless its detailed works on the moving map for example.

Outside objects seem to scale pretty well at this setting and I do have a zoom axis mapped if needed for spotting etc.

Kind regards,

Gary

Edited October 30, 2022 by Gary