Bold Cheetah - A 13 Mission DCS F/A-18 Campaign by Sedlo

[Sedlo]

51 minutes ago, miguelaco said:

I would say it’s normal until just before touchdown. I will try to replicate the same conditions and repeat the recovery in order to have more data. Hopefully I’ll come back with a track too.

First time I tried I didn’t realize the aircraft was too heavy and thought that could be the cause, but on a second and third attempts, I dumped fuel and landed at 33000 lbs.

Standby on that... I've got some changes to publish once the next DCS update drops.

[miguelaco]

I tried Mission 6 yesterday after updating both DCS and the campaign. Managed to land engaging ACLS, but the gear got damaged too, so I think something is definitely wrong with the implementation. Everything looked smooth from the cockpit until the very end, the system commands throttles to idle and aims too short. It ends with the aircraft bouncing on touchdown and hopefully catching the wire #4 or boltering, while damaging the gear in the process. Not nice.

I think I'll try to replicate it in a different mission, same conditions but starting in the air and performing the Case III right away. Any thoughts?

[Sedlo]

You could try… I haven’t see this sort of behaviour on my machine.   I don’t think the auto throttles are supposed to go to idle though, I’ve caught three and four wires consistently in the last couple days while testing.  
 

Is there anything on your computer mod – wise? That could be something going on there.  
 

[miguelaco]

No, I have no mods installed apart from some kneeboards. Yesterday after the update I run a slow repair, so I think It's all good. It's weird because I tried other missions and landed a bit short but fine, nonetheless. Do you have wake turbulence enabled? It seems the problem is at the very end, so it could be that the burble is causing it somehow. Did you test with mission 6 specifically?

Anyway, I think it's easier if I try to replicate and get evidence. I'll post back as soon as I managed to get a trackfile showing the issue.

 

Edited December 5, 2024 by miguelaco

[Sedlo]

Sounds good. Yeah, it was mission 6.  Tonight I’ll try again and see if I can replicate.  

[miguelaco]

As promised, I'm attaching a track that shows the issue. I took mission 6, and edited to start in the air, ready for a Case III approach. I didn't respect the procedures and commenced right away after established. I also removed most of the payload to make sure I was within weight limits for a carrier trap.

The following screenshot shows the exact moment of touchdown, and as you can see ATC and AP CPLD P/R are engaged but the rate of descent is 1000 fpm, too much for the Hornet's landing gear:

acls.trk

acls-test.miz

Edited December 6, 2024 by miguelaco
added mission file

[Sedlo]

Very interesting!  I usually use an approach sped of 145 140 KIAS, I’m wondering if that’s a possibility.   
 

There isn’t anything strange with the mission that I can think of, might be worth asking about on the Supercarrier sub forum.  
 

 

Edited December 6, 2024 by Sedlo

[Sedlo]

I think maybe your airspeed is too low?  I tried to get 140 KIAS / on speed and gave me a pretty good descent rate.

 

 

 

[miguelaco]

You raised an interesting issue, maybe I'm doing it wrong. I thought it was not possible to set the airspeed once you engage both ATC and CPLD P/R. How do I command a higher speed? Do I have to set the aircraft to that speed prior to engaging ATC and then it will try to maintain it?

Thanks again for the assistance.

Edited December 6, 2024 by miguelaco

[Sedlo]

6 hours ago, miguelaco said:

You raised an interesting issue, maybe I'm doing it wrong. I thought it was not possible to set the airspeed once you engage both ATC and CPLD P/R. How do I command a higher speed? Do I have to set the aircraft to that speed prior to engaging ATC and then it will try to maintain it?

Thanks again for the assistance.

That's how I do it, yeah.  At the 8 mile call I get configured, gear, flaps down.  I'll manually get it on-speed at @140 kts and then engage ATC.  After that I'll select CPL.

[TimSell75]

In Mission 1 I faced an issue with the f-14s taking off as support. They were directed to Cat 1&2 which are then blocked by parked airplanes. So the F-14 also blocked the runway causing a foul deck when I returned.

Otherwise: extemely high qual mission!!!

Edited December 7, 2024 by TimSell75

[PawlaczGMD]

On 12/1/2024 at 9:52 PM, miguelaco said:

I just finished mission 6, Iron Hand, and it’s been a blast so far, thank you.

I had to repeat mission 6 a couple of times since ACLS seems it’s not correctly handling the weather conditions. Everything seems good until the last moments, as the aircraft is touching down really hard and got its gear damaged. Anyone experienced this?

On my third attempt I had to land manually and I passed, but I thought ACLS would be capable of handling this.

I've also had issue with ACLS in bad weather. It broke my gear a couple of times despite a good approach and good weight. It is best to disconnect it on final and fly manually in my opinion, it will be good for your skill too.

On 12/5/2024 at 11:15 PM, miguelaco said:

You raised an interesting issue, maybe I'm doing it wrong. I thought it was not possible to set the airspeed once you engage both ATC and CPLD P/R. How do I command a higher speed? Do I have to set the aircraft to that speed prior to engaging ATC and then it will try to maintain it?

Thanks again for the assistance.

Your speed should depend on your weight only. When you're on glideslope (fixed descent rate) and on "speed" (fixed AoA), your indicated airspeed will depend on weight and wind only. AFAIK it should not really be possible to change it, the autopilot will get you on AoA with trim, and set the throttle to be on glideslope, it should not be able to change your speed independently from these parameters. But I might be wrong.

Edited December 7, 2024 by PawlaczGMD

[miguelaco]

7 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I've also had issue with ACLS in bad weather. It broke my gear a couple of times despite a good approach and good weight. It is best to disconnect it on final and fly manually in my opinion, it will be good for your skill too.

Your speed should depend on your weight only. When you're on glideslope (fixed descent rate) and on "speed" (fixed AoA), your indicated airspeed will depend on weight and wind only. AFAIK it should not really be possible to change it, the autopilot will get you on AoA with trim, and set the throttle to be on glideslope, it should not be able to change your speed independently from these parameters. But I might be wrong.

Thank you! I was able to complete the mission a few days ago, just as you suggested, by taking control on final. However, I’ve been curious about why the ACLS failed in that way.

I’ve managed to narrow down the issue. As I suspected, it seems related to the "wake turbulence" setting. Despite its name, this also appears to influence the carrier burble. The effect seems to be amplified under the specific weather conditions in Mission 6. I have two tracks from the same mission, one with wake turbulence on and the other off. In the first track, the aircraft sinks rapidly on final, and the ACLS can’t compensate for it.

I’ll post the tracks once I’m home and have access to my PC.

[PawlaczGMD]

8 minutes ago, miguelaco said:

 

Thank you! I was able to complete the mission a few days ago, just as you suggested, by taking control on final. However, I’ve been curious about why the ACLS failed in that way.

I’ve managed to narrow down the issue. As I suspected, it seems related to the "wake turbulence" setting. Despite its name, this also appears to influence the carrier burble. The effect seems to be amplified under the specific weather conditions in Mission 6. I have two tracks from the same mission, one with wake turbulence on and the other off. In the first track, the aircraft sinks rapidly on final, and the ACLS can’t compensate for it.

I’ll post the tracks once I’m home and have access to my PC.

I also suspected this, but didn't do proper testing. The burble effect seems to be much too strong in some conditions. It's definitely bugged if it makes ACLS crash. it would be good if you made a separate Hornet  bug report if you have tracks to show this.

[Sedlo]

12 hours ago, TimSell75 said:

In Mission 1 I faced an issue with the f-14s taking off as support. They were directed to Cat 1&2 which are then blocked by parked airplanes. So the F-14 also blocked the runway causing a foul deck when I returned.

Otherwise: extemely high qual mission!!!

Roger that, I’ll have a look.  Thank you!

[Sedlo]

4 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I also suspected this, but didn't do proper testing. The burble effect seems to be much too strong in some conditions. It's definitely bugged if it makes ACLS crash. it would be good if you made a separate Hornet  bug report if you have tracks to show this.

Yeah, I know that the devs put a lot of work into the wake turbulence, but I find enabling it results in a pretty significant performance hit (for my potato) so I never use it.  I also think the effect is a little too dramatic in game.

Perhaps I should force disable it in the mission?

Edited December 8, 2024 by Sedlo

[miguelaco]

9 hours ago, miguelaco said:

 

Thank you! I was able to complete the mission a few days ago, just as you suggested, by taking control on final. However, I’ve been curious about why the ACLS failed in that way.

I’ve managed to narrow down the issue. As I suspected, it seems related to the "wake turbulence" setting. Despite its name, this also appears to influence the carrier burble. The effect seems to be amplified under the specific weather conditions in Mission 6. I have two tracks from the same mission, one with wake turbulence on and the other off. In the first track, the aircraft sinks rapidly on final, and the ACLS can’t compensate for it.

I’ll post the tracks once I’m home and have access to my PC.

Just to follow up on this, take a look at these two videos showcasing the issue:

Same weather conditions as in Mission 6. I'm also attaching the trackfiles in case anyone is interested. I will also post it in the Bugs and Problems subforum so ED can take a look at it.

Thanks everyone for the help.

acls_wake_turbulence.trk acls_no_wake_turbulence.trk

[Sedlo]

1 hour ago, miguelaco said:

Just to follow up on this, take a look at these two videos showcasing the issue:

Same weather conditions as in Mission 6. I'm also attaching the trackfiles in case anyone is interested. I will also post it in the Bugs and Problems subforum so ED can take a look at it.

Thanks everyone for the help.

acls_wake_turbulence.trk 4.11 MB · 0 downloads acls_no_wake_turbulence.trk 4.14 MB · 0 downloads

That's some great work there!  I think I'm going to force disable wake turbulence on this mission, just so no one else gets this issue.

To be honest, I turned mine off shortly after it was introduced, and kind of forgot about it.  Thank you for doing a report to ED about it, hopefully it's something they can look into.

[Sedlo]

Version 2024-12-08 posted!  This update forces wake turbulence OFF via the mission editor.  Thanks to @miguelaco for the report about the strange behaviour with the ACLS.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3326679/

[miguelaco]

I would suggest not to enforce the setting, since it not only influence the carrier burble. It also makes AAR and dogfights more challenging among other things. What about leaving the option and adding a designer note saying that the option can cause problems with ACLS in some missions and it is advised to either disable wake turbulence or fly manually on final approach?

Just my perspective—it's your campaign, and it'll be awesome no matter what you decide! 

[rob10]

41 minutes ago, miguelaco said:

I would suggest not to enforce the setting, since it not only influence the carrier burble. It also makes AAR and dogfights more challenging among other things. What about leaving the option and adding a designer note saying that the option can cause problems with ACLS in some missions and it is advised to either disable wake turbulence or fly manually on final approach?

Just my perspective—it's your campaign, and it'll be awesome no matter what you decide! 

I'd agree with this.  At a minimum just keeping the enforced off only on this mission would be OK.  I like my turbulence (except while it's throwing me around)

[TimSell75]

In mission 3 I found a problem with the static aircraft at the bow. You were supposed to take off from cat 3 or 4 but with the new deck crew, they order you to take off from cat 1 which is blocked by parked aircraft. Unfortunately you can´t choose your cat anymore, you have to go where they tell you. I fixed it by deleting the LUA file that places the bow aircraft.

Awesome mission again!

Edited December 8, 2024 by TimSell75

[Sedlo]

Thought I had that fixed.  Thanks, I’ll take a look.  

I’m terms of wake turbulence, I’m going to keep it forced off on mission 6 until they can address the burble issue. 
 

There is only one other mission that requires case three and there’s lots of light out for that one, so I will leave it up to the player on that one. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Sedlo

[Sedlo]

Version 2024-12-09B updated - Bow statics on the carrier deleted, missing TACAN mission 5 replaced.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3326679/

Edited December 9, 2024 by Sedlo

[TimSell75]

Just tried mission 4 a couple of times. Some problems I faced:

- The SA2 site was never attacked. In the mission briefing it was said it would be attacked by Tomahawks, but this never happens. It is always active.

- The F-14s don´t really protect the strike. They turn back to the carrier immediately after they attacked the first wave of scrambled jets and let the strike planes cope with all the other bandits that sramble afterwards leaving UZI flight in a knife fight with F-5s and F-4s.

Edited December 9, 2024 by TimSell75