New to the M-2000. Could someone explain the items in the Special Menu

[sobe]

I am new to the M-2000 and was a little confused on the special menu items in the game.  Is there an explanation of them?

Also, I note that there are issues with the training missions.  What is the latest status on them?

 

[Rakkis]

Not sure about your first question, however regarding your second, Helljumper stated in another thread that he's working on updating the training missions but its very time intensive.
 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Rakkis
typo

[kotor633]

Hi,
I claim the threat creator means this menu:

 

[Despayre]

Most of those are pretty self-explanatory, and if you hover over the check-box it gives you a little mini-explanation too. Perhaps if the OP was a little more specific? 

(and yet,  I gave it all a shot anyway, lol)

But briefly, going down the columns...

Gyro drift is real... requires INS resets occasionally, don't like that realism, turn it off here.

Log engine data...  no idea why I want that... uber-nerds only.

Auto fuel detot... I believe combines the external tanks automatically on the total displayed on the dash, without having to do it manually (like they do in RL)

R. freq repeater... in RL, you cannot see the channel of the... green?... radio, only the red one (or vice versa) on the dash, this changes that so you can, quite useful, but not realistic.

Real VTB cone, other that being self-explanatory, I have not played with this, maybe someone else can elaborate

Distinctive RWR feels pretty self-explanatory

Randomize radar channel... I think this helps prevent cross-over with other M2000's radar if you're flying with a group

Radar map objects... I believe that's like ships and trucks etc... requires more processing power (no idea how much more)

show PCN missing digit, refers to the fact that the INS doesn't show the final LAT/LONG digit, but when you enter it, you'll get a msg onscreen showing the digits, incl the missing one

Radio PTT short... feels self-explanatory, never used it, I think it has something to do with SRS/VOIP, but I'm not sure, and don't have any issues using SRS

External tank refill fix... no idea...

and the rest seem pretty straightforward, other than maybe the elastic limit options, and I'll let someone who can explain that better take a shot at those, but essentially they allow you to oversteer the plane beyond its recommended limits, briefly.

 

[Iron Sights]

The elastic limiter is on the fly by wire system. I believe this controls how much realism you want on this system.

[Galinette]

Here is the explanation for the elastic limit.

On the real jet, when you pull the stick, you feel a stop at a certain point that commands 9g. It's the "elastic limit". The stick force feeling is rather linear between neutral and the elastic limit.

If you pull much harder (about 40kg), it's possible to move the stick beyond that point for about 20% more travel range, up to a "hard" limit that corresponds to 11g. The use case is emergency only. You can't exceed 9g inadvertently due to the force profile.

Now there are three possible settings to simulate this in DCS, and a slider.

Clamp : when the bind isn't pressed, pulling beyond the elastic limit position will do nothing, it will stay at 9g. To exceed, you need to press the bind and go beyond the elastic limit axis value.

Scale : when the bind isn't pressed, the full stick range controls up to 9g. When pressed, the full stick range controls up to 11g

Disable : your stick always controls the full 11g range. It's not recommended unless you have a modified stick with a special force profile that mimics the elastic limit, as you want to be able to stop at 9g in normal conditions. This is doable with custom Virpil cams (I have one)

Beside this, a slider allows adjusting the elastic limit position on axis.

 

Default settings are good for normal use. You will need to bind the "Elastic limit" command to go beyond 9g

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kercheiz

[cmbaviator]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:55 PM, Kercheiz said:

Here is the explanation for the elastic limit.

On the real jet, when you pull the stick, you feel a stop at a certain point that commands 9g. It's the "elastic limit". The stick force feeling is rather linear between neutral and the elastic limit.

If you pull much harder (about 40kg), it's possible to move the stick beyond that point for about 20% more travel range, up to a "hard" limit that corresponds to 11g. The use case is emergency only. You can't exceed 9g inadvertently due to the force profile.

Now there are three possible settings to simulate this in DCS, and a slider.

Clamp : when the bind isn't pressed, pulling beyond the elastic limit position will do nothing, it will stay at 9g. To exceed, you need to press the bind and go beyond the elastic limit axis value.

Scale : when the bind isn't pressed, the full stick range controls up to 9g. When pressed, the full stick range controls up to 11g

Disable : your stick always controls the full 11g range. It's not recommended unless you have a modified stick with a special force profile that mimics the elastic limit, as you want to be able to stop at 9g in normal conditions. This is doable with custom Virpil cams (I have one)

Beside this, a slider allows adjusting the elastic limit position on axis.

 

Default settings are good for normal use. You will need to bind the "Elastic limit" command to go beyond 9g

 

 

40kg is 400N thats a lot of force required. whats the constant force applied on the stick in normal conditions ? 5-10 Kg ?

[Galinette]

From memory it's 0-8kg progressive force to go from center to the elastic limit (9G in A/A mode)

I had the occasion to test the real one on the ground and fly in a sim having the real one. BFM is definitely arm workout
 

 

 

[myHelljumper]

2 hours ago, cmbaviator said:

40kg is 400N thats a lot of force required. whats the constant force applied on the stick in normal conditions ? 5-10 Kg ?

That's the forces, it's from the future update to the manual :).

[cmbaviator]

2 hours ago, myHelljumper said:

That's the forces, it's from the future update to the manual :).

thats weird, i thought as its a FBW aircraft, it would be a constant force. should we put a curve in our sensitivity pitch axis to try simulate that ?

 

If i understand correclty, the more G (more deflection) you want, more force will be required to move the stick ?

In the A320 that is full FBW, the stick require the same amount of force to deflect

[myHelljumper]

On 11/18/2022 at 5:11 PM, cmbaviator said:

thats weird, i thought as its a FBW aircraft, it would be a constant force. should we put a curve in our sensitivity pitch axis to try simulate that ?

 

If i understand correclty, the more G (more deflection) you want, more force will be required to move the stick ?

In the A320 that is full FBW, the stick require the same amount of force to deflect

Hi,

No, no need to add curves as the ratio between stick deflection and commanded G load is already non-linear.

And yeah, basically the more G you want the more force. The forces are fully artificial as there is no link between the stick and elevons, is it generated by a spring box.

Edited November 21, 2022 by myHelljumper

[cmbaviator]

2 minutes ago, myHelljumper said:

Hi,

No, no need to as curvature as the ratio between stick deflection and commanded G load is already non-linear.

And yeah, basically the more G you want the more force. The forces are fully artificial as there is no link between the stick and elevons, is it generated by a spring box.

Why is it non linear ? By design ?

[myHelljumper]

1 minute ago, cmbaviator said:

Why is it non linear ? By design ?

Yes, I'll share the stick deflection to commanded G graph when I get home, but it's not a straight line.

[DSplayer]

Btw for future reference, if you hover over the special menu options, it does give a short summary of what the special option does. 

[Dragon1-1]

Most FBW systems are not linear, I suppose it feels better that way, just like how we sometimes add stick curves.

Elastic limit is essentially a version of the Hornet's Top Gun switch, only without the actual paddle.

As for VTB view cone, it's because the VTB is an old-style CRT, it'll go blank when you look at it from from a wrong angle due to how it's mounted. This setting is mostly useful with VR or headtracking.

Most distinctive RWR option is there because in the real Mirage, the missile launch tone is pretty soft, unlike the "drop everything and evade!" siren in other jets. This option makes it get your attention better.

Radar senses map objects is actually for objects that are part of the map (buildings, but also, say, static vehicles) as opposed to being placed in ME. This is realistic, but it clutters up the display. Shouldn't have much effect on processing power, but I don't know.

Radio PTT is for the built-in SRS replacement. This allows you to use one button for both talking to humans and opening the comm menu.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Dragon1-1

[Galinette]

On 11/18/2022 at 5:11 PM, cmbaviator said:

thats weird, i thought as its a FBW aircraft, it would be a constant force. should we put a curve in our sensitivity pitch axis to try simulate that ?

 

If i understand correclty, the more G (more deflection) you want, more force will be required to move the stick ?

In the A320 that is full FBW, the stick require the same amount of force to deflect

No, a constant force stick would be basically unusable in a plane pitch control as you wouldn't have any muscle feedback on where your stick is. You are confused with other systems.

Some FBW aircraft have a "force only" stick that only senses force and does not move. This is the case on the F-16 for instance. The stick action is always increasing with applied force on those. It can be linear or non-linear if this makes handling better but, the action is always a strictly increasing function. This exists for the sim world, RealSimulator does sell one.

Other FBW systems have a more traditional stick that moves, also with an increasing function of force (like most our sim sticks), like the M-2000C. I think Airbus sticks are in this category.

Only helicopters have mostly no force in the stick (but damping instead : force isn't a function of position but movement rate)

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Kercheiz

[Temetre]

Am 21.11.2022 um 10:48 schrieb Kercheiz:

Some FBW aircraft have a "force only" stick that only senses force and does not move. This is the case on the F-16 for instance. The stick action is always increasing with applied force on those.

Tbf didnt they revert that because it was too difficult to use? IIRC its more of a combined system, where force matters, but the stick still moves a bit.

No clue how exactly it works though, its an interesting system.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Temetre

[DayGlow]

What happened to the option to have the INS pre-aligned? It was a nice gameplay friendly feature for SP so I could get on with a mission and not wait for the INS for 8 minutes on every startup. 

[Ramsay]

7 hours ago, DayGlow said:

What happened to the option to have the INS pre-aligned? It was a nice gameplay friendly feature for SP so I could get on with a mission and not wait for the INS for 8 minutes on every startup. 

It was removed as a pre-aligned fast (3 minute ALCM/STH) start up is available by default unless disabled by the mission/server.

For players who can't wait 3 minutes or don't want to learn the fast alignment procedure there is always the option to make missions that spawn the player in an already running/aligned aircraft.

https://youtu.be/EvoSwROL98Y

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Ramsay

[DayGlow]

On 5/3/2023 at 4:34 AM, Ramsay said:

It was removed as a pre-aligned fast (3 minute ALCM/STH) start up is available by default unless disabled by the mission/server.

For players who can't wait 3 minutes or don't want to learn the fast alignment procedure there is always the option to make missions that spawn the player in an already running/aligned aircraft.

https://youtu.be/EvoSwROL98Y

 

 

Thanks. So this includes legacy missions and the campaigns?

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, DayGlow said:

So this includes legacy missions and the campaigns?

ALCM/STH should work for most missions - unless the mission is set to look for a particular switch, mission trigger, etc. or it's been disallowed in the Mission Editor.

The only way to be sure would be to try it.

Note that ALCM/STH alignment has a higher INS drift rate and therefore A2G can be less accurate, however there is an option to disable Gyro Drift in

• Options>Special>M-2000C>Simulation: Disable Gyro Drift

... if the mission doesn't enforce it. 

[DayGlow]

well tried this in the main campaign and I get a horizon secours error every time once I take off so I guess I have to sit through a full alignment to play through 

 

edit, nope. The main ADI has its malfunction flag out and won't go off, even with a normal alignment. Don't know wtf is going on, never had this before and can't find a solution

Edited May 8, 2023 by DayGlow