Can the F1 carry and use A/A and A/G weapons unlike the M2000?

[julianqwerty]

Cant find anything on the internet about this, does anyone know before I buy the module?

 

Edit: to clarify, My questions was if the F1 can carry both A/A (fox1) and A/G weapons and deploy them, since the M2000 can carry bombs and fox1s but cannot deploy them.. it will give you an error on the weapons panel

Edited November 23, 2022 by julianqwerty

[VirusAM]

Yes. The F1 can load both AA and AG loadouts

[bones1014]

Both the F1 and 2000C can carry and use ground weapons. They're just somewhat limited. The 2000C is an interceptor by design.

[Bremspropeller]

I think what he means is you can't carry Super 530Ds and bombs at the same time in the M2.

In the F1, you can.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[Bananabrai]

On 11/21/2022 at 5:02 PM, julianqwerty said:

Cant find anything on the internet about this, does anyone know before I buy the module?

Bro, you should clarify your question. I understood something different again than the 3 others above me^^

On 11/21/2022 at 11:29 PM, Bremspropeller said:

I think what he means is you can't carry Super 530Ds and bombs at the same time in the M2.

I understood he meant: can the F1 carry anything, that the 2000C is not able to carry, for example the BLU-109 Durundal (for our DCS verions only available on the F1 and not on the M2000)

[julianqwerty]

8 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

Bro, you should clarify your question. I understood something different again than the 3 others above me^^

I understood he meant: can the F1 carry anything, that the 2000C is not able to carry, for example the BLU-109 Durundal (for our DCS verions only available on the F1 and not on the M2000)

Yeah I am sorry about that. My questions was if the F1 can carry both A/A (fox1) and A/G weapons and deploy them, since since the M2000 can carry bombs and fox1s but cant deploy them.. it will gives you an error on the weapons panel

 

On 11/21/2022 at 11:29 PM, Bremspropeller said:

I think what he means is you can't carry Super 530Ds and bombs at the same time in the M2.

In the F1, you can.

 

Thank you for answering!

[Bananabrai]

14 hours ago, julianqwerty said:

Yeah I am sorry about that. My questions was if the F1 can carry both A/A (fox1) and A/G weapons and deploy them, since since the M2000 can carry bombs and fox1s but cant deploy them.. it will gives you an error on the weapons panel

 

Thank you for answering!

So you are talking about carrying medium range/BVR/Fox1 missiles AND A-G ordnance at the same time.

M2000: You are correct, the S530D are not deployable if you carry A-G ordnance
F1CE/EE: You will be able to carry R530 and any A-G ordnance at the same time and deploy them.

The F1 has a pretty basic weapon selection panel, and no digital FCS contrary to the 2000.
In the F1 you basically just select the station, the aircraft doesn't care what is attached to it.

[julianqwerty]

13 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

So you are talking about carrying medium range/BVR/Fox1 missiles AND A-G ordnance at the same time.

M2000: You are correct, the S530D are not deployable if you carry A-G ordnance
F1CE/EE: You will be able to carry R530 and any A-G ordnance at the same time and deploy them.

The F1 has a pretty basic weapon selection panel, and no digital FCS contrary to the 2000.
In the F1 you basically just select the station, the aircraft doesn't care what is attached to it.

Thank for confirming!

[Thinder]

One little detail.

I don't think DCS Mirage F1 weapon inventory is complete, it should be able to carry the Super 530F which in fact was its primary weapon from 1979, and it was used by many operators of the export versions of the F1, the 530 was the Mirage III and IIIE primary weapon, not that of the F1...

Iraqui Mirage F1EQs shot down Iranian F-14s and Turkish F-100 with the Super 530F, see below the list of Mirage F1 export operators having used the 530F, in any case, this AAM should be available for the Mirage F1 in DCS...

 

 

Medium-range or interception missiles.

The French Super 530 family was developed by Matra (see figures 40 and 41). The R 530 missile required a complete overhaul to adapt it to the evolution of the threats described above. The Super 530 F is a new missile. It kept, from the R 530, only the diameter (263 mm) and the interchangeability with the missile launcher.

This diameter was adapted to the technology of the R 530 (dating from 1958). A diameter of 220 mm would have been more rational for the Super 530, but the EMAA considered that a derivative keeping the diameter reduced the cost of development.

The Super 530 F was developed from 1969 to be adapted to the Mirage F1. Its main characteristics and performances are as follows: - semi-active pulsed EM seeker: we indicated above (chapter 8, EMD) the reasons which led to the choice, for the F1, of an on-board radar without continuous illuminator; attacking targets at low altitude was not possible.

On the other hand, the AD was modern (monopulse antenna, profiled radome and electronic technology from 1970) and its range was doubled compared to that of the R 530 (gains of the antennas of the radar and of the AD markedly increased); - classic configuration, but with reduced wing span (0.64 m, instead of 1.1 m for the R 530) to facilitate mounting under the aircraft; - mass of 245 kg; - more efficient propellant than for the R 530: mass of 115 kg (+ 49 kg) and use of butalane as propellant; - Thomson proximity fuze, electromagnetic correlation (see chapter 8, CFTH), and 32 kg Brandt fragmentation charge; - performance: firing in the F1 range with a maximum Mach of 4.5 for the missile; possible height difference of 9,000 m, allowing the attack of targets at 21,000 m; minimum altitude limited by the AD, varying from 1,000 m in rear attack to 3,000 m in frontal attack; maximum firing distance of 25 km; minimum shooting distance of 1000 m.

This missile was put into service in 1979; it had undergone a spread of its development, for budgetary reasons.

It should be noted that a few test interceptions took place at the CEL, in 1975, with an altitude difference of 8,000 m on an American AQM 37 A supersonic target flying at a Mach 0.9 higher than the shooter service aircraft. (Vautour).

In addition to the F1, the Super 530 F was adapted to the first Mirage 2000 equipped with an RDM pulse radar. 1,200 missiles were produced until 1988: 650 for France and 550 for export with the F1, to Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan and Qatar.

The Super 530 F was used in the Iraq-Iran conflict. The Super 530 D is the version adapted to the Mirage 2000 equipped with a pulse doppler on-board radar (named RDI, pulse doppler radar).

The main differences in characteristics compared to the F are as follows: - EMD semi-active doppler seeker (see chapter 8, EMD), with 1980 digital technology (microprocessor for management); significantly increased AD range: 50 km; very high resistance to modern countermeasures; - partially digitized computer driver; - more efficient vehicle: increased mass and length (+ 30 kg and + 265 mm), total impulse thruster 16% higher, with an SEP composite casing; - performance: maximum speed of Mach 5; increased possible height difference, allowing the attack of targets at 24,000 m; minimum target altitude of 60 m; maximum firing distance of 50 km, with an interception distance of 35 km.  The "F" of the Super 530 corresponds to the F1 aircraft.

 

LES MISSILES AIR-AIR DE LA DEUXIÈME GÉNÉRATION

 

Centre des hautes études de l'armement. Département d'histoire de l'armement. Comité pour l'histoire de l'aéronautique. Paris

COMAERO

https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb42381212q

Official website for archive on the subject of French weaponry, the document needed for this article are not all-public.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thinder

[EnzoF98]

5 hours ago, Thinder said:

Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan and Qatar.

But the aircraft in DCS is a Spanish F1 CE, which did not carry the S530F.

[Bremspropeller]

27 minutes ago, EnzoF98 said:

But the aircraft in DCS is a Spanish F1 CE, which did not carry the S530F.

It could; Spain just didn't buy the missiles.

When Spain eventually bought qatari F1EDAs, the Super 530Fs were carried by those.

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Spain-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1EDA/804121/L

Edited December 1, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[Bananabrai]

33 minutes ago, EnzoF98 said:

But the aircraft in DCS is a Spanish F1 CE, which did not carry the S530F.

7 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

It could; Spain just didn't buy the missiles.

When Spain eventually bought qatari F1EDAs, the Super 530Fs were carried by those.

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Spain-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1EDA/804121/L

 

Didn't Aerges already confirm they want to make the S530F available for our F1CE, EE and M?

[Bremspropeller]

17 minutes ago, Bananabrai said:

Didn't Aerges already confirm they want to make the S530F available for our F1CE, EE and M?

I think so. Makes a lot of sense, because it doesn't artificially constrain playability. You forgot the BE

 

Also, most Cs were relatively close in between each other. Apart from the moroccan CH models, which for example had a doppler nav suite, which made it similar to the nav capabilities of some simpler Es (like the libyan ED).

Edited December 1, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[Thinder]

6 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think so. Makes a lot of sense, because it doesn't artificially constrain playability. You forgot the BE

 

Also, most Cs were relatively close in between each other. Apart from the moroccan CH models, which for example had a doppler nav suite, which made it similar to the nav capabilities of some simpler Es (like the libyan ED).

 

It would make a lot more sense than equiping the aircraft with a mediocre AAM which was never designed to be its primary weapon....

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/310592-best-fox-2-missile/?do=findComment&comment=5099273

[Bremspropeller]

TBH, I'd like to have both.

I also was under the impression the S530F was going to follow some time into early access, so I think we'll just have to be patient.

[gnomechild]

The Super 530F is coming. It's listed on the WIP items for the module and in lots of other places

[fausete]

I guess most of you are already aware but the S530F is, indeed, coming and we hope it will be available to the public very soon.

[Harlikwin]

On 12/1/2022 at 7:31 AM, Bananabrai said:

Didn't Aerges already confirm they want to make the S530F available for our F1CE, EE and M?

Yes they did. The issue likely with ED, as from what I can tell the firing side of the house should be the same as the regular 530, which of course makes for some interesting converstations about what that should look like on enemy RWRs (there is no state change with the radar between lock/firing). 

Overall I'm a bit disappointed with the rate progress on getting the existing IR missiles fixed (cage/uncage) as well as the state of the radar and Super 530F. 

[Bananabrai]

15 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

the state of the radar

With this I agree.

I am not so rushy on new and fancy equipment, of course it's nice to get new toys and play more, but they should take their time with S530F, EE, elc.

But with the radar I have to agree. It is still not possible to properly control brightness, contrast, gain, etc., which is crucial for night time interceptions.
Also I have to admit now that the noise looks really static, contrary to what I believed and stated when the module was not released and the radar was showcased.

What I'd really like to see (and I think Aerges are the once that would do it, because they did neat stuff like ladders, helmets, GPUs, etc.), being able to make these weapon select knobs less bright in night.
How? Well, of course fighter pilot / mechanic style. With right clicking, stick a piece of tape on it -> dimmed like a pro.

[Harlikwin]

9 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

With this I agree.

I am not so rushy on new and fancy equipment, of course it's nice to get new toys and play more, but they should take their time with S530F, EE, elc.

But with the radar I have to agree. It is still not possible to properly control brightness, contrast, gain, etc., which is crucial for night time interceptions.
Also I have to admit now that the noise looks really static, contrary to what I believed and stated when the module was not released and the radar was showcased.

What I'd really like to see (and I think Aerges are the once that would do it, because they did neat stuff like ladders, helmets, GPUs, etc.), being able to make these weapon select knobs less bright in night.
How? Well, of course fighter pilot / mechanic style. With right clicking, stick a piece of tape on it -> dimmed like a pro.

Honestly for me the bigger thing is the state of clutter not really canging at all. Basically its a pulse radar with MTI processing when looking "down". As such even at a basic level when looking "up" there shouldn't much in the way of clutter (there is IRL from clouds and such but thats not what this looks like). Similarly when looking down there should be way more clutter, as well as more clutter at low alt (or at least range reductions etc). Plus at least from what I have read, the Cyrano IV was never that good in look down and it seems to work pretty well. 

And really adding the cage/uncage stuff for the IR missiles seems pretty straightforward as well. They did a fantasitc job on the 9B IMO, but like where are the fixes for the 9J/P/juli and the 550 (and now magic II). 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Harlikwin

[EnzoF98]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:23 PM, Bremspropeller said:

It could; Spain just didn't buy the missiles.

I didn't say it couldn't, I said it didn't.

On 12/1/2022 at 3:23 PM, Bremspropeller said:

When Spain eventually bought qatari F1EDAs, the Super 530Fs were carried by those.

So still not carried by the CE.

 

Either way, I'm happy we're getting it - But to say something was missing from the Spanish F1 CE's inventory (which is what I replied to), is just wrong.