Detune Ground Unit Accuracy

[cazub]

There are 100 other threads on whether or not the ground unit accuracy is realistic or if it matches the ability a human player (with combined arms) would have. I don't think i care. I'd like to have a mod or lua, some ability to detune them to what i think ground unit accuracy would be. I'm running DCS liberation and after a 120nm ingress to be sniped by a Nona through clouds at 5kft while it also engages my ground units is ridiculous. So everyone feel free to go argue about if that is realistic elsewhere, i don't care, just want to detune the AI units to my liking. Average/Good/High skill levels just aren't quite enough. 

[schurem]

Amen. BMP3 being a better AAA than shilka is .. bovine excrement.

 

Lowest level ai ground fire should be mostly decorative, hardly effective.

Edited November 24, 2022 by schurem

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

@cazub Try this:

Put down ZU-23 AAA pits and fly over head. Try to knock them out with guns only.

Now, put down a Shilka and try to do the same.

These are two units of similar role, but one has radar guidance to assist it. Yet, the ZU-23 will be way more accurate. Radar guided AA will seek center mass while visually aimed AA will always, always aim for cockpits. It's annoying as all hell.

Being able to address this would be really outstanding.

[Dragon1-1]

In many cases they should not even be able to fire, particularly BMP3. AI routinely fires guns with telescopic sights at targets way outside the telescope. It's not possible to lead a fastmover, or even a helo in many cases, with a small FOV sight, since you'd have to pull so much lead the target will disappear. You can't hit what you can't see. 

IRL, few weapons without radar guidance can even be fired at a fastmover. Even the ZU-23 should not be a threat to anything faster than an A-10, as long as it's not flying directly at it (and even then, rapidly changing range brings its own challenges). Of course, realistic dispersion would actually make them harder to evade. Right now, it's pretty simple to dodge the whole burst if you can see it coming.

[79Au]

Maybe they could use the gunner skill slider from the huey module?

[Tank50us]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

In many cases they should not even be able to fire, particularly BMP3. AI routinely fires guns with telescopic sights at targets way outside the telescope. It's not possible to lead a fastmover, or even a helo in many cases, with a small FOV sight, since you'd have to pull so much lead the target will disappear. You can't hit what you can't see. 

IRL, few weapons without radar guidance can even be fired at a fastmover. Even the ZU-23 should not be a threat to anything faster than an A-10, as long as it's not flying directly at it (and even then, rapidly changing range brings its own challenges). Of course, realistic dispersion would actually make them harder to evade. Right now, it's pretty simple to dodge the whole burst if you can see it coming.

actually, irl, the point of firing at all isn't necessarily to kill the incoming aircraft (although if you do, that's a win also). If he's got a whole bunch of tracers wizzing past his cockpit, odds are he's going to rush the bomb drop and miss, meaning that you win by attrition because at the end of the engagement, you're still alive, and he's going home with no weapons to engage. Now, if this could be properly simulated in DCS (because let's face it, we're not usually afraid of death in a game where we cannot actually die), then I think we'd be in for a more appropriate simulation of AAA

Edited November 25, 2022 by Tank50us

[Northstar98]

10 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

@cazub Try this:

Put down ZU-23 AAA pits and fly over head. Try to knock them out with guns only.

Now, put down a Shilka and try to do the same.

These are two units of similar role, but one has radar guidance to assist it. Yet, the ZU-23 will be way more accurate. Radar guided AA will seek center mass while visually aimed AA will always, always aim for cockpits. It's annoying as all hell.

Being able to address this would be really outstanding.

I'm not even convinced that AI fire-control radars actually do anything apart from trigger RWRs - they're defined like any other radar.

[Dragon1-1]

6 hours ago, Tank50us said:

actually, irl, the point of firing at all isn't necessarily to kill the incoming aircraft (although if you do, that's a win also). If he's got a whole bunch of tracers wizzing past his cockpit, 

Except he doesn't, if he's outside your sight when you fire, I can guarantee that the tracers will be going nowhere near his cockpit. Wildly spraying in a fastmover's general direction will only reveal your position and possibly cause him to try to shack you. If he's actively rolling in on you, then yes, sending a few tracers his way might worry him, but then, you'll also be able to actually aim at him, because he won't be going across your line of sight. For anything that's not a dedicated AA, the procedure for when a hostile fastmover appears is to hightail it to the nearest tree or anything that will put you out of his sight, because he can't see a whole lot from up there. If he's got a TGP or support from the ground, things get harder, but even then, concealment is the best protection from an aircraft overhead.

[Rubberduck85]

Less accuracy? Yes definitely. Better yet coupled with less awareness.

I find it hardly believable that a tank column (just tanks/APC/trucks, nothing with radar anywhere on the map) can see me approaching from behind/front at 500 kts / 300 ft AGL and react in any coherent manner...

This is just how the all-seeing AI works. 

[upyr1]

14 hours ago, Tank50us said:

actually, irl, the point of firing at all isn't necessarily to kill the incoming aircraft (although if you do, that's a win also). If he's got a whole bunch of tracers wizzing past his cockpit, odds are he's going to rush the bomb drop and miss, meaning that you win by attrition because at the end of the engagement, you're still alive, and he's going home with no weapons to engage. Now, if this could be properly simulated in DCS (because let's face it, we're not usually afraid of death in a game where we cannot actually die), then I think we'd be in for a more appropriate simulation of AAA

 

that would be awesome to see this fixed. 

 

[schurem]

Just rolled in on some crawlers, a zsu-57 among them. An obsolete, optically laid AAA piece. Singleton too. I was going quickly enough, about 500kts and not flying straight. 

Bang. Dead.

Sure there's the possibility of a golden bb, but my first reaction was a heartily yelled "bullshot!"

 

 

 

[bies]

Dedicated anit-air I'm not going to argue, but non AAA i agree completely.

Definitely both

- ability to locate air targets by non dedicated AAA, without radar, often without optics, inside a noisy tank or IFV, at first pass when it was impossible to even hear aircraft coming,

- and accuracy of non-dedicated anti aircraft fire, like small FoV BMP main canon sight, hand operated tank MG on turret roof etc., with no proper optics, inadequate turret traverse speed,

are order of magnitude grater than in real life.

 

Adjusting non-dedicated AAA accuracy can be simple. Adjusting perception, ability to instantly detect air threats at all directions, may be more tricky.

Edited January 29, 2023 by bies