acknowledged AIM-120 does not consistently acquire the correct target in a formation.

[Default774]

The AIM-120 has an issue where if launching on a group of targets the missile will consistently acquire the wrong target when activating its seeker. When the missile goes pit bull, the missile will consistently acquire the trailing aircraft in a formation instead of the intended target. 

The two targets can have almost 1nm of separation between them, and the missile will always go for the trailing target on seeker activation. 120_group_leading shows this quite clearly. The missile is fired at the LEFT/Leading target in the formation, and acquires the trailing aircraft instead. Note that the missile displays unusual guidance, most probably due to receiving (in this case) incorrect datalink data for the wrong aircraft.

When the situation is reversed and the trailing aircraft in formation is targeted, the missile has no problems discerning the two targets even with a much smaller separation between the two. 120_group_trailing shows this with a separation of ~500ft between the two aircraft, yet the missile acquires the intended target in this case.

120_group_1&2 show a DTT launch on both aircraft in a formation from a left offset angle. Despite both missiles being targeted at separate aircraft, both missiles go for a single target; the trailing aircraft in formation.

Something important to note is that this only occurs when a formation of targets is attacked from a certain direction. 120_group_3&4 show that if the same formation as in 120_group_1&2 is attacked from head-on or a right offset, the issue does not occur and the missiles acquire the correct targets.

120_group_1.acmi 120_group_2.acmi 120_group_3.acmi 120_group_4.acmi 120_group_leading.acmi 120_group_trailing.acmi 120_group_1.trk 120_group_2.trk 120_group_3.trk 120_group_4.trk 120_group_leading.trk 120_group_trailing.trk

Edited December 20, 2022 by Default774

[LowGlow]

I have also wondered about this behaviour of the AIM-120 in DCS.

To me it does not really make sense that when the AMRAAM switches from datalink guidance to pitbull mode, that it would suddenly acquire another target that's way off its boresight.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Its a sneaky tactic to confuse the enemy. And the launcher. XDDD

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Esac_mirmidon

[Default774]

Issue still occurs in latest OB

[Pavlin_33]

What about in STT mode?

[Default774]

7 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

What about in STT mode?

STT does not affect this behaviour

120_group_stt.trk

[maxTRX]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:11 AM, Default774 said:

Issue still occurs in latest OB

I did a quick test in the latest OB, using the Hornet in a head-on setup aganst 2 Flankers, flying in right echelon. On the first hop I used the pinky switch to cycle the bandits. On the second engagement I used RAID to sort them out and designate.  I did few more setups at different aspects and altitudes. So far it all worked fine.  It's was all in SP though.

https://youtu.be/UKN4GMk-BCw

 

[Default774]

3 hours ago, oldcrusty said:

I did a quick test in the latest OB, using the Hornet in a head-on setup aganst 2 Flankers, flying in right echelon. On the first hop I used the pinky switch to cycle the bandits. On the second engagement I used RAID to sort them out and designate.  I did few more setups at different aspects and altitudes. So far it all worked fine.  It's was all in SP though.

https://youtu.be/UKN4GMk-BCw

 

You are at 40k shooting down at targets at 16k. This is very different from the tracks I show where I am co altitude with the targets. I also cannot tell if you have AI enabled on your target. You also fired your missile offset from the targets. All of this could mess with the geometries of the missile shot which could cause the behaviour to not occur.

I will do some more testing to see if anything changes with different altitude differences later.

 

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, Default774 said:

You are at 40k shooting down at targets at 16k. This is very different from the tracks I show where I am co altitude with the targets. I also cannot tell if you have AI enabled on your target. You also fired your missile offset from the targets. All of this could mess with the geometries of the missile shot which could cause the behaviour to not occur.

I will do some more testing to see if anything changes with different altitude differences later.

 

Sure, who knows what else effects missile behavior. I've done a few different setups: coaltitude, lookup, lookdown, against a division in trail, line abreast.  To my surprise the Amraams performed quite well. Out of all the missiles fired 3 were defeated by Flanker's extreme maneuvering at low altitudes but they were heading for the right targets.  The Hornet's radar is a different story   but that's a separate discussion. 

[Default774]

Small bit of testing with varying altitude differentials. All behaves roughly the same except with a 30k altitude differential where the missiles still both go for the wrong target, except its now the leading not the trailing aircraft in formation, weird stuff.

Its definitely picky in what sort of direction you are attacking and what formation the enemy is flying in. Surprisingly easy to encounter in practise though. The standard fighter formation if you don't change anything makes this behaviour occur if you attack them from a left offset.

@BIGNEWY @NineLine any chance of this report getting a look?

 

120_grp_plus30.trk 120_grp_plus20.trk 120_grp_plus10.trk 120_grp_level.trk

[Default774]

Same problem seems to occur when shooting targets with an altitude difference. The missile will consistently acquire the higher target instead of the intended target. Here you can also observe the missile receiving false datalink information and snapping.

120_acq_1.acmi 120_acq_1.trk

[Default774]

Issue still occurs in OB 2.8.4.48947 MT Preview

[BMD]

also seeing a lot of missiles going after missiles after the 2.8.4.39259.1 update yesterday, especially AMRAAM Bs. And can confirm I-ve seen many times missiles going for the trailing element in a group when firing at the lead

Edited April 23, 2023 by BMD

[Default774]

14 hours ago, BMD said:

also seeing a lot of missiles going after missiles after the 2.8.4.39259.1 update yesterday, especially AMRAAM Bs. And can confirm I-ve seen many times missiles going for the trailing element in a group when firing at the lead

 

You able to get a track/tacview of a 120 going for another missile instead of the plane? Having a hard time reproducing it in singleplayer without reference material

 

[Default774]

Behaviour seems to change when engaging a formation of targets with different RCS. Comparison of similar shots where one of the targets has a much larger RCS than the other. Missiles now switch between both targets repeatedly.

120_horiz_4k_lrcs.acmi 120_horiz.acmi 120_horiz_lrcs.acmi 120_vertical_4k.acmi 120_horiz_4k_lrcs.trk 120_horiz.trk 120_horiz_lrcs.trk 120_vertical_4k.trk

[Moonshine]

another example. as you can see, i clearly step to the wingman (and no, missile is not pitbull off the rail), yet still both missiles track the same target.

Aim-120_TGT_selection.trk

[BIGNEWY]

I have marked this acknowledge for now, the team will take another look in the future. 

We will need to have a think about this behaviour and look at the public evidence. 

thank you.