MI-24VP

[Guest]

An upgrade to the VP version with the cannon in a turret. Then i would buy it.

[AeriaGloria]

There was only like a dozen made. Would be nice, but V version upgrade is much more likely. We should also get more rocket variants, SPO-15, Cyprus version with small wings and fixed gear, UPK-23-250, L166V, windows PK/AK. There is a few features they could add for a upgrade down the road. 
 

Even re doing the cockpits for Mi-24D and using the Mi-8 engines for it would be likely minimal changes if a V is already being done. 

[Razorback]

My Mi-24P wishlist for 2023 :
- UPK-23-250
- SPO-15
- L166V "Ispanka" IR Jammer

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Razorback said:

My Mi-24P wishlist for 2023 :
- UPK-23-250
- SPO-15
- L166V "Ispanka" IR Jammer

Those would be something easily added without needing a whole new “2” upgrade, even if I’m sure it will never happen. 
 

Im sure we will get the jammer eventually. When IR is simulated as well as the FLIR and we have older missiles. L166 should still work on older sidewinders and R-3/13/60 

Unfortuently the UPK-23-250 and SPO-15 seems to be export only. I had hope when they planned to overhaul SPO-15 for DCS MiG-29A, but that’s not a sure thing anymore 

SPO-15 would be such a crazy upgrade. To see type of emitter with more precise bearing and to even roughly gauge the distance! To tell between track lock and missile launch. It would be such a game changer, it would make the Mi-24 much better suited to to modern environments. 

[Foka1]

- L166V "Ispanka" IR Jammer    -  There was an answer in interview for russian community, this jammer were not really that effective and it was made to jam specific old systems that are not even represented in DCS yet (Strela 2 manpad for instance).

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

36 minutes ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Would still be cool to have it physically there in the model, with the cover on.

Yeah, the space bugs me. It just needs something there.

[Avimimus]

On 12/31/2022 at 11:04 AM, Razorback said:

My Mi-24P wishlist for 2023 :
- UPK-23-250
- SPO-15
- L166V "Ispanka" IR Jammer

I'd take an Mi-24V, with MDB racks (4xFAB-100), PKT door guns, and UPK-23-250... and maybe a couple of additional rocket warhead variants. I'd definitely pay as much as I did for the Mi-24P!

[Kevin509]

As an aside, I'm curious why there's so much desire overall for the flexible gun on the Hind? Are there really that many of you out there who are CPG mains who want to play from the front seat? 

Because as someone who plays solo from the back seat and owns both the Apache and the Hind, I can hit a target at longer ranges with the fixed gun in the Hind and overall find it a more useful weapon on the Hind than the Apache. It's fun to squirt at the bad guys with the helmet tracking sight from the back, but ultimately if you're doing that you're 'doing in wrong' as far as employing the Apache goes, and I don't believe any version of the Hind has that sort of capability for the turret mounted gun, so it would be solely the CPG's weapon. 

I personally like shooting the gun while I'm flying, so I'm glad ED gave us the P. I'm not sure everyone is really considering that they'd be losing the gun as the pilot with a Hind V or whatever. 

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, Kevin509 said:

As an aside, I'm curious why there's so much desire overall for the flexible gun on the Hind? Are there really that many of you out there who are CPG mains who want to play from the front seat? 

Because as someone who plays solo from the back seat and owns both the Apache and the Hind, I can hit a target at longer ranges with the fixed gun in the Hind and overall find it a more useful weapon on the Hind than the Apache. It's fun to squirt at the bad guys with the helmet tracking sight from the back, but ultimately if you're doing that you're 'doing in wrong' as far as employing the Apache goes, and I don't believe any version of the Hind has that sort of capability for the turret mounted gun, so it would be solely the CPG's weapon. 

I personally like shooting the gun while I'm flying, so I'm glad ED gave us the P. I'm not sure everyone is really considering that they'd be losing the gun as the pilot with a Hind V or whatever. 

In D/V/VP the pilot can fire the gun, but only fixed to boresight. So obviously, it is a downgrade in firepower compared to a 30mm gun with 940 m/s speed and 2450 rpm 

[randomTOTEN]

I don't know, lets ask him.

@Razor68 Why do you want a flexible gun on the hind?

[Top Jockey]

2 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

I don't know, lets ask him.

@Razor68 Why do you want a flexible gun on the hind?

 

Not Razor68 here, but I'll answer - because :

- one feels more control over that weapon system, and it also increases the immersion feeling

- I'm a targeting system's enthusiast, and enjoy managing those systems

- the simple boresight (point the gun with the helicopter) and shoot, feels somewhat 'arcadish'

- I've seen 1983 "Blue Thunder" with Roy Scheider, and liked it

- I've seen "TOPGUN" with the completely fictional moving aiming sights, and still I liked it

- for me, part of the Hind's (Apache, Cobra, etc) charisma always was its chin turret

- it makes stationary / hovering flight shots possible, contrary to the current side-mounted fixed cannon Hind variant

...

Edited February 19, 2023 by Top Jockey

[Avimimus]

On 2/18/2023 at 5:51 PM, randomTOTEN said:

I don't know, lets ask him.

@Razor68 Why do you want a flexible gun on the hind?

Honestly, I'd like that Yak-b 12.7mm gun. It potentially allows engaging multiple soft-skinned vehicles during a single pass.

It also has some utility in increasing the area in which MANPADs can be suppressed.

I've often looked through the gunsight while in the front seat and wished I could fire a burst at what I was seeing!

[Stratos]

On 12/28/2022 at 2:26 AM, AeriaGloria said:

There was only like a dozen made. Would be nice, but V version upgrade is much more likely. We should also get more rocket variants, SPO-15, Cyprus version with small wings and fixed gear, UPK-23-250, L166V, windows PK/AK. There is a few features they could add for a upgrade down the road. 
 

Even re doing the cockpits for Mi-24D and using the Mi-8 engines for it would be likely minimal changes if a V is already being done. 

A V would be amazing, wondering If we can direct Petrovich where to aim and what target shoot like we did with the Shturms...

[LorenLuke]

On 2/18/2023 at 2:51 PM, randomTOTEN said:

I don't know, lets ask him.

@Razor68 Why do you want a flexible gun on the hind?

Because I'd like to be useful for something other than firing 4/8 missiles, and then twiddling my thumbs after.

[AeriaGloria]

I find the 30mm absurdly accurate. It seems to be the most accurate unguided weapons it has, and best deals with the limits of the CCIP system. 2 km is really max effective for it but you can take out things up to 3 km if you look use a lot of ammo and aim above the pipper.

Edited March 31, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[Gunnar81]

On 3/23/2023 at 12:57 PM, Stratos said:

A V would be amazing, wondering If we can direct Petrovich where to aim and what target shoot like we did with the Shturms...

I agree as long as the unreliability of the turret is properly simulated, so 50% of the time you use the module the turret seizes, something like that.

[AeriaGloria]

3 minutes ago, Gunnar81 said:

I agree as long as the unreliability of the turret is properly simulated, so 50% of the time you use the module the turret seizes, something like that.

Where is such unreliability reported? 

[Stratos]

7 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Where is such unreliability reported? 

Is another of those myths reagarding Soviet equipment.

[WinterH]

Endless infatuation with "give turreted Mi-24 grrrrrr" is one of the weirdest hills this community seem to want to die upon.

First, it's not a magical "look/lock here and shoot here" like Apache or Ka-50 as there's no ranging equipment to facilitate that. Second, neither YakB, nor GSh-23L is a great weapon for what we do in DCS with attack helos. Former is just a machine gun, no HE shells, and won't penetrate most vehicles either. Latter has a short range, slow shells with a parabolic trajectory, and still not much penetration.

Would it be cool? Yeah, it'd be cool. But it really, really isn't nearly as important as people seem to think it is.

[Stratos]

26 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Endless infatuation with "give turreted Mi-24 grrrrrr" is one of the weirdest hills this community seem to want to die upon.

First, it's not a magical "look/lock here and shoot here" like Apache or Ka-50 as there's no ranging equipment to facilitate that. Second, neither YakB, nor GSh-23L is a great weapon for what we do in DCS with attack helos. Former is just a machine gun, no HE shells, and won't penetrate most vehicles either. Latter has a short range, slow shells with a parabolic trajectory, and still not much penetration.

Would it be cool? Yeah, it'd be cool. But it really, really isn't nearly as important as people seem to think it is.

It would be important If we had a semirealistic infantry and not the T-1000's we have now.

[LorenLuke]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:35 AM, WinterH said:

Endless infatuation with "give turreted Mi-24 grrrrrr" is one of the weirdest hills this community seem to want to die upon.

[...]

Would it be cool? Yeah, it'd be cool.

You literally have the explanation as for why in your own post. This reason is the only reason we need. 

[AeriaGloria]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:09 AM, Stratos said:

Is another of those myths reagarding Soviet equipment.

What is definitly not a myth is not turret but gun reliability. You could only fire 500 rounds before needing to wait 5-20 minutes depending on temperature for it to cool. And often it jammed before hitting 500 rounds. At 4,500-5,000 rpm, that’s little more then 6 seconds of firing. 
 

Right now the YakB In the GUV pod has no such limitations, so who knows if ED would implement it 

The Gsh-30-2K would jam also, but I have never heard a reason for why. It seemed to be more random and rare 

[Stratos]

Lots of guns jam when doing long bursts, I learned that ages ago in Strike Fighters Project One, short bursts and never while loading high G's. But yes would be nice to have jamming occuring If not enough care is taken.

BTW: whats that book AeriaGloria?

[WinterH]

15 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Right now the YakB In the GUV pod has no such limitations, so who knows if ED would implement it 

Very few modules implement gun failures afaik. MiG-21 and JF-17 has them, or, at least the MiG had them, not sure if it still works been a while I had a stoppage in it. I think maybe Harrier too, not sure.

Unlike the MiG and Jeff, I don't think I've ever had a stoppage with ED built GSh-23 implementations like in L-39, or in UPK-23/SPPU-22 pods. I doubt we'd get that implemented if we had a Mi-24V, but honestly, that isn't needed to still make YakB a pretty miserable turret gun option in DCS. Being the first ones to do it in DCS, maybe Mag3 will also include it with their F-8 when that sees the light of day, as ironically, so-called "the last gunfighter" also had guns that would jam left and right.

As things are right now, you need direct hitS on infantry, as they can sometimes tank multiple hits from it, and while I think it theoretically has better penetration than GSh-23L, or perhaps even M-61 with SAPHEI rounds, that's only from relatively shorter distances. Besides, since you'd basically be manually walking rounds in, you'll end up having to shoot from closer ranges anyway. Which, in DCS, is suicidal against even likes of BTRs or a Humvee with a .50 cal on, never mind proper IFVs or AAA, or, indeed, that random dude with an RPG-7 in hand  GSh-23L is also a give/take situation in comparison, it'd definitely be better vs infantry and unarmored vehicles in the open, probably also things like other helicopters, maybe. But it is also short ranged, has considerably slower velocity, an arcing trajectory, and actually somewhat worse armor penetration. Besides, it only ever achieved more wide scale use in Hind variants with very late versions, VP from Cold War being basically a very low production run or even basically prototypes afair. The only time Hinds got a really decent turret gun is in those wierd South African "Superhind" upgrades, and I'm not sure I'd clamor after those in DCS...

This isn't entirely unique to Hind BTW. M197 on Cobras is also notorious for lots of stoppages apparently, and afaik, it only got laser rangefinding assisted aiming in later variants like AH-1F and AH-1W from I think maybe mid-80s on. But at least most Cobras with 20mm gun also had the ability to slew around the turret with pilot and gunner's helmet.

"Lock something/somewhere up, or just look there, and shoot it with that cool turreted attack helo gun" really became more of a thing with Apache it seems. I think we are accustomed to the idea from older "sims" we've played, and our own DCS Kamov (and later Apache) being actually able to do it. And, even in AH-64's case, if you look at IRL Apache gun footage (as well as how it was in DCS at first :P), rounds fall all over the place around the targets, and the thing is literally called "Area Weapon System". But it can actually aim at that area nice and quick, and HEDP rounds work just as well at their maximum range against both armor and soft targets as they do up close.

21 hours ago, LorenLuke said:

You literally have the explanation as for why in your own post. This reason is the only reason we need. 

IMO, "It'd be cool" really isn't enough of a reason for something to get dev time/priority in something like DCS though  but well, I wouldn't mind it if it happens anyway. Even though I know it'd be barely any better than the Kord door gun we already have

[LorenLuke]

3 hours ago, WinterH said:

IMO, "It'd be cool" really isn't enough of a reason for something to get dev time/priority in something like DCS though  but well, I wouldn't mind it if it happens anyway. Even though I know it'd be barely any better than the Kord door gun we already have 

I mean, I disagree that it isn't worth dev time for one reason alone- Money.

Example: There's the C-130 being made, and I'm certain <X amount> of people will buy it. But if it was specifically the AC-130, I'm certain more than <X amount> would purchase. Why? Because it's cool.

The rationale of practicality out the window, given that it'd be shot down in an area that's even moderately contested airspace doesn't matter, you'll get a line around the building to buy for the 'cool'-factor alone. 

The GSh-30 is a fantastic gun. But giving the Hind even something like the exported GSh-23L turret as something for the gunner to have would 1) be better than the Yak 12.7, given the DCS-ism of lighter arms, 2) the chin gun and the 'coolness' factor that the current Hind lacks. And I believe those two factors would drive sales further than the Mi-24P has.