DCS size !

[BuzzU]

Ok, thanks guys.

Do I need 64GB for SP?

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

You really should go 64 if possible.

 

Why?  He doesnt do Multiplayer .. I fly SP with 32 GB and have never encountered any issue with that amount.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, BuzzU said:

Do I need 64GB for SP?

 

I believe on an "as needed" policy regarding hardware purchases ... 16 GB used to be enough ram for single player, but after DCS 2.7 it is clear that 16 is too low and 32 GB is the current need for SP.  I'd save the cost of a second batch of 32 GB ram towards a new SSD 1-2 TB drive in the future.

[BuzzU]

Ok, thanks buddy.

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

16 GB used to be enough ram for single player, but after DCS 2.7 it is clear that 16 is too low and 32 GB is the current need for SP. 

I fly with 16GB of RAM and I have no trouble driving a Reverb G2 at pretty reasonable settings. My antiquated CPU is a bigger problem. I wouldn't put up a new system for DCS with 16GB of RAM, but if I had to buy prebuilt with 16GB and other components up to date, I imagine that'd do quite nicely.

[BuzzU]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I fly with 16GB of RAM and I have no trouble driving a Reverb G2 at pretty reasonable settings. My antiquated CPU is a bigger problem. I wouldn't put up a new system for DCS with 16GB of RAM, but if I had to buy prebuilt with 16GB and other components up to date, I imagine that'd do quite nicely.

That true for all my games but DCS. I get some stutters with 16GB. $59 for 16GB more is not a big deal. I just hope putting it in is not bad.

[Dangerzone]

10 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Thanks for understanding. I really need to decide what I want to do and then the problem will go away. At my age DCS is a struggle. However, it's all I want to do now. So, i'll retire from racing sims and hunting sims too. Then I need to concentrate on just one plane. I'm having a hard time deciding between the Hornet and Hog. Both are complex but they're the two I like. Which one do you think is easier to master?

Once I decide that my SSD is plenty big enough. Then i'll have to decide if I want to add the ram myself. I live in a small mountain town in the Colorado Rockies. Great for hunting and fly fishing but there's no computer tech near me. I'll have to just dig in and get it done.

I have both. For me I found the Hornet far easier. I think in part there's more than can be done visually, whereas with the hog it seemed to be more memory based as a lot of the controls are on the HOTAS and can't be done via clicks on the screen. This may vary for others, and maybe it might have been a bit easier for me if I had a dedicated warthog HOTAS that was a 1:1 bind, but my memory ain't what it used to be, so I definitely found the hornet much easier to learn.  (To the point where I don't fly the Hog - my memory keeps forgetting all the HOTAS combinations). Was that TMS up, or Right? Press or hold? etc. 

However on the other side, the hog is probably easier to fly as a flight model. Feels like a Cessna. Very easy to take off and land - the hornet is a tad more slippery, but honestly both are relatively easy for the flight model.

I think the Hog is a far better ground pounder for sure, and gets in among the action, but the Hornet just has more versatility. It's well capable of both A2G and A2A, but the carrier ops is really the icing on the cake. CASE1, 2 or... or go for CASE 3 landings for night ops. Never seems to be a lack for something to learn/try/do. I'd love to fly the hog more but there's only so much I can retain in my brain, and I have too many modules as it is - the HOG keeps on tripping me up trying to remember all the HOTAS commands.

Since both are free to try I strongly suggest doing that first, but I'm completely bias to the hornet now.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Dangerzone

[Mars Exulte]

12 hours ago, sthompson said:

You can write a batch file that will prevent the next update from failing when it tries to redownload and install the unwanted files and finds there isn't enough room? That would be a good trick. Please take the 15 seconds and show us how. I'm serious.

 No, I can write a batch file to delete the offending directories in fifteen seconds, automating the horrible process of ''it being reinstalled with each update''. If your drive us full, then you can do the same thing everybody else has done for the last 30-40 years of PC gaming: uninstall some <profanity> or get a bigger drive.

[Mars Exulte]

Yeah, prebuilts screw you on HD capacity and RAM.

19 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Even a simple thing as adding another SSD or swapping in a bigger one. I also need to add somemore ram and i'm hesitating doing it. It looks like I have to remove the radiator to add ram and i'm not thrilled with the idea. It's not that I don't have mechanical ability. I was an auto mechanic for decades. However, i'm 80 years old now and my fingers don't work like they used to. I don't really want to be fumbling around in my system.

  I understand. On that note have you considered an external drive? Then you don't need to fumble around in anything. Some are USB 3.0-3.2 and very fast. Something to keep in mind.

19 hours ago, BuzzU said:

So, things aren't as simple as you make them sound for everybody.

They really are, storage space is extremely easy to deal with, even considering what you've said.

[BuzzU]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I have both. For me I found the Hornet far easier. I think in part there's more than can be done visually, whereas with the hog it seemed to be more memory based as a lot of the controls are on the HOTAS and can't be done via clicks on the screen. This may vary for others, and maybe it might have been a bit easier for me if I had a dedicated warthog HOTAS that was a 1:1 bind, but my memory ain't what it used to be, so I definitely found the hornet much easier to learn.  (To the point where I don't fly the Hog - my memory keeps forgetting all the HOTAS combinations). Was that TMS up, or Right? Press or hold? etc. 

However on the other side, the hog is probably easier to fly as a flight model. Feels like a Cessna. Very easy to take off and land - the hornet is a tad more slippery, but honestly both are relatively easy for the flight model.

I think the Hog is a far better ground pounder for sure, and gets in among the action, but the Hornet just has more versatility. It's well capable of both A2G and A2A, but the carrier ops is really the icing on the cake. CASE1, 2 or... or go for CASE 3 landings for night ops. Never seems to be a lack for something to learn/try/do. I'd love to fly the hog more but there's only so much I can retain in my brain, and I have too many modules as it is - the HOG keeps on tripping me up trying to remember all the HOTAS commands.

Since both are free to try I strongly suggest doing that first, but I'm completely bias to the hornet now.

 

I tend to agree with you. I've had both since they were released but never got into either one like I wanted to. I flew the Viper mostly or WW2 planes. I want to concentrate on just one plane now. I also have a horrible memory at my age and the Hog is a chore remembering the HOTAS. I do have the Warthog HOTAS which makes it easier. Sort of. I thought of using the A-10C in stead of the A-10C II. That eliminates a bunch of button pushes for the HMCS. There's a lot of campaigns for it and I have them all but never did them.

The Hornet has a lot to remember too if I use every weapon. Which I really wouldn't have to but would be nice. There isn't that much on the HOTAS. Guys complain that the DDI's have to be used to use the weapons but I kind of like it because I can see what the button presses are doing. Nothing to remember.

The Hog is easy to fly and land but the constant trimming gets kind of old. The FBW of the Hornet makes it simple to fly to me. Boat landings can take a lot of practice to get good at. I wouldn't mind some campaigns from an airbase. I'd like to get to the point of doing the Raven campaigns but the videos i've watched of them being flown baffle me. I don't know what the voice overs are saying. Military talk loses me. One thing I love about the Hornet is the cockpit. It's easy to work with and the HUD is so easy to use compared to the Hog. The Hog also has the CDU which can get complex.

Both planes have advantages and disadvantages. That's why I ask for opinions of others. I'm having a hard decision choosing one but don't want to fly both planes.

Thanks for your input.

[BuzzU]

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Yeah, prebuilts screw you on HD capacity and RAM.

  I understand. On that note have you considered an external drive? Then you don't need to fumble around in anything. Some are USB 3.0-3.2 and very fast. Something to keep in mind.

They really are, storage space is extremely easy to deal with, even considering what you've said.

Yeah, i'll have to dig into working on it. I did build my own system once 15 years ago. It turned out so bad I swore i'd never do it again. Looking back on it I had more problems with the software than the mechanical part of it. Although my wiring wasn't pretty.

I didn't realize how big Syria was. I never fly there and removing it gives me 65GB to use.

[Rudel_chw]

6 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

have you considered an external drive? Then you don't need to fumble around in anything. Some are USB 3.0-3.2 and very fast. 

 

Yes, but consider that not every motherboard has USB 3.2 connectors.

[BuzzU]

I decided to go with the Hornet.

Thanks everybody for the help.

[sthompson]

8 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 No, I can write a batch file to delete the offending directories in fifteen seconds, automating the horrible process of ''it being reinstalled with each update''. If your drive us full, then you can do the same thing everybody else has done for the last 30-40 years of PC gaming: uninstall some <profanity> or get a bigger drive.

That approach assumes there is enough room on the drive for an update to occur. Otherwise the update fails and there is nothing to delete. But if you have enough room for the update to finish then you don't need to do the deletion. So it's not a solution to merely delete what you don't want after every update. That said, I agree that the ultimate solution is to get a bigger drive.

The symlink option is a better one than the one you propose. However, It would be nice if ED could provide some guidance and help as to code/data that doesn't need high speed access. I doubt if there is a performance need for the mission editor or the module manager or the updater to be on an SSD for example.

[Mars Exulte]

5 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Yes, but consider that not every motherboard has USB 3.2 connectors.

 So? Some people are quadrapalegic and can't operate a mouse and keyboard. What of it? Every motherboard has USB slots, and anything made in the last 10-15 years has at least 3.0, anything in the last 5 years is likely to have at least one 3.1, there's also other options as far as that goes. Point is you don't even have to take the panel off your case to expand capacity.

I don't really get this ''PLEASE CONSIDER THE UNICORN EXCEPTION!!!'' There are literally a multitude of easy solutions. People choosing not avail themselves of any of them is just... not my problem.

As for the specifics of downloads themselves, allowing for ''extras'' like liveries to be selectable is not a bad idea in and of itself, but a lot of this is self inflicted. If you need more space buy a drive or uninstall some other stuff. All there is to it, and all this wailing and gnashing of teeth and ''consider the edge cases'' is silly. If this guy's DCS install was 1/4 its current size, and he was able to install another 5-6 games... he is then in exactly the same situation again: uninstall some stuff or get another drive.

There is nothing different now, from 30 years ago when dealing with storage capacity.

[Mars Exulte]

6 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Yeah, i'll have to dig into working on it. I did build my own system once 15 years ago. It turned out so bad I swore i'd never do it again.

 Choosing your case is the #1 most important part, tbh. They vary a lot on the inside and if they're laid out wrong, or it's too small, it makes the whole process unnecessarily painful. If everything's good, it should only take an hour or two to build one. If everything's not so good....well, I spent 14 hours building this pos I have now because I got a very flashy but poorly designed case and was ready to throw it off the balcony by the time I finally finished.

6 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Looking back on it I had more problems with the software than the mechanical part of it.

 I grew up dealing with manually assigned COM ports, IRQ, and what have you. That was challenging, as were the cases. These days everything is plug and play. Modern windows will usually install your drivers for you if you want it to, if not you just hit the manufacturers website for your main components find your devices and roll on. Barring the occasional fluke of two devices not coexisting happily (which is rare now due to the unified standards we didn't have 20+ years ago) it should go smoothly.

6 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Although my wiring wasn't pretty.

 I'm from the school of thought ''turn the case on its side and sit on it to smush the cables down, you can't see that stuff anyway''. Although I did overdo it a time or two and the side panel was bowing out so bad I had to rearrange it anyway.

6 hours ago, BuzzU said:

I didn't realize how big Syria was. I never fly there and removing it gives me 65GB to use.

 Maps make up the overwhelming majority of the game's size. The base game is only 50-60GB I think, if that. Each of those maps adds about 50GB, depending. Nevada is also 60-65 if I remember.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Mars Exulte

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Mars Exulte said:

I don't really get this ''PLEASE CONSIDER THE UNICORN EXCEPTION!!!'' There are literally a multitude of easy solutions. People choosing not avail themselves of any of them is just... not my problem.

 

Maybe not your problem, but I'm used to give precise advice and try to not make too many assumptions, if you suggest a USB 3.2 drive as a possible solution, you might as well mention to the OP to ensure his PC has the appropiate connectors ... it may be obvious and easy for you, but you really ought to know that not everyone is as gifted as you seem to be.

[BuzzU]

Keep in mind I was 64 when I got my first computer. So, not at my peak when it comes to learning.

[Rudel_chw]

13 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

Keep in mind I was 64 when I got my first computer. So, not at my peak when it comes to learning.

that’s unusual … I’m pretty old too, almost 65, but my first computer dates from 1982 (a Commodore vic-20) and I’ve had a pretty large lineup of successors of that computer, including a lot of Macs and PCs

[BuzzU]

I always had plenty to keep me busy and I thought anybody who owned a computer was a nerd.

I guess i'm a nerd now.

[BuzzU]

After more thought and messing around. I'm going with the Hog instead of the Hornet. Slower speed suits me better and I don't have the eyesight and reflexes for A2A in the Hornet. I'll let the youngsters protect me as escorts. Plus, I like the idea of protecting our troops in CAS.

[Dangerzone]

15 hours ago, BuzzU said:

I tend to agree with you. I've had both since they were released but never got into either one like I wanted to. I flew the Viper mostly or WW2 planes. I want to concentrate on just one plane now. I also have a horrible memory at my age and the Hog is a chore remembering the HOTAS. I do have the Warthog HOTAS which makes it easier. Sort of. I thought of using the A-10C in stead of the A-10C II. That eliminates a bunch of button pushes for the HMCS. There's a lot of campaigns for it and I have them all but never did them.

The Hornet has a lot to remember too if I use every weapon. Which I really wouldn't have to but would be nice. There isn't that much on the HOTAS. Guys complain that the DDI's have to be used to use the weapons but I kind of like it because I can see what the button presses are doing. Nothing to remember.

The Hog is easy to fly and land but the constant trimming gets kind of old. The FBW of the Hornet makes it simple to fly to me. Boat landings can take a lot of practice to get good at. I wouldn't mind some campaigns from an airbase. I'd like to get to the point of doing the Raven campaigns but the videos i've watched of them being flown baffle me. I don't know what the voice overs are saying. Military talk loses me. One thing I love about the Hornet is the cockpit. It's easy to work with and the HUD is so easy to use compared to the Hog. The Hog also has the CDU which can get complex.

Both planes have advantages and disadvantages. That's why I ask for opinions of others. I'm having a hard decision choosing one but don't want to fly both planes.

Thanks for your input.

The Raven one campaigns are brilliant. I enjoyed playing the first mission, then reading the book up to the next mission and stop reading, and then play - and went through the whole campaign like that. It brought the book alive, and it brought DCS alive. A very unique and amazing experience.

However in saying that - I would not dive into the campaign straight away. It does require that you learn a number of systems as you progress so it's something I'd save up my sleeve for a little later. With the hornet, you can start with some basic stuff and just slowly wean your way into different systems at your own pace. For me - I enjoyed learning online with some others - as we could ask each other 'what have I forgotten', or 'why isn't it doing this' when we'd forget something simple.  But as you've mentioned -there's no need to learn all the systems. I think the first 2 months I spent was just enjoyment of launching and trapping on the carrier alone. 

I think that's an important area where the hog differs. The hog requires a lot of memory for the HOTAS - but as far as I can recall - most of the systems work in very similar ways to each other so once you learn that system - it's easier to progress. The Hornet has much less in the HOTAS memory department - but each system is employed to a certain extent differently to the next. At least though - the learning curve is much flatter.

Good luck with your decision. 

[BuzzU]

Thanks.

[Dragon1-1]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

The Raven one campaigns are brilliant. I enjoyed playing the first mission, then reading the book up to the next mission and stop reading, and then play - and went through the whole campaign like that. It brought the book alive, and it brought DCS alive. A very unique and amazing experience.

When it's not bugged, anyway. Those campaigns are so complex that they must have unearthed at least one bug in every DCS version they were ran on. ED's testing team should seriously consider running a full playthrough of both of those before each stable release, and not release stable until all bugs they run into are fixed. Seriously, DCS mission logic is ridiculously brittle for something that is not very complex at all in absolute terms.

[Wood]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:07 PM, Dangerzone said:

From my understanding the dedicated server requires all maps to be installed, even if you're only using one.

Wait what? Are you saying a dedicated server will need all theatres added. I thought as a dedicated server the theatres were not needed unless your actually using the actual DCS world standalone. 
 

the dedicated server as indicated 

"DCS World Dedicated Server" installer installs a special DCS World version which intended to work as a dedicated server and doesn't contains textures and sounds. Installed server takes approx. 170 GB on HDD and works as a full-functional server controlled only by WEB (i.e. without any GUI features). This version already includes ALL available terrains and WWII units module, works without 3D graphics and sounds.

Terrain and WWII units doesn't asked activations when launched in server mode without rendering, server owner shouldn't buy them.

NOTE: these "free" terrains can work ONLY on dedicated server without rendering. You can't use them on the client.