DCS CH47 Discussion thread

[Vortexstate]

On 12/1/2023 at 12:16 PM, corbu1 said:

I‘m interested in helos in general and do flying them for more than 15 years in flightsimming…..so for me it‘s not only the weapons…..I really hope does the CH-47 FM really good.

This is a concern for me, too. The AH-64D flies like it doesn't have AFCS. The CH-47 is an easy aircraft to fly generally afaik, and the AFCS will only improve that.

Edited March 6 by Coeptus

[Vortexstate]

Does anyone by chance know what this knob does? Thanks!

Edited March 7 by Coeptus

[AlphaOneSix]

1 hour ago, Coeptus said:

Does anyone by chance know what this knob does? Also, whilst I'm at it, how many pages and what exact pages are within the CH-47F's CDU? Thanks!

 

I'm pretty sure it's the AFCS system select switch. It goes OFF - 1 - BOTH - 2 - OFF and is normally in BOTH which will have both AFCS systems operating at 50% authority (gain?) each. If you put it in 1 or 2 it will activate just that system only at 75% authority. OFF turns off both systems.

[slowmover]

4 hours ago, AlphaOneSix said:

I'm pretty sure it's the AFCS system select switch. It goes OFF - 1 - BOTH - 2 - OFF and is normally in BOTH which will have both AFCS systems operating at 50% authority (gain?) each. If you put it in 1 or 2 it will activate just that system only at 75% authority. OFF turns off both systems.

You are correct. With AFCS to OFF position it should be hard,very hard to control it.

 

7 hours ago, Coeptus said:

This is a concern for me, too. The AH-64D flies like it doesn't have AFCS. The CH-47 is an easy aircraft to fly generally afaik, and the AFCS will only improve that.

 

You are also correct. CH-47 should be very easy to fly

[Vortexstate]

Hey everyone. Does anyone have a diagram showing what the HOCAS (Hands on Collective and Stick) are and what functionality for the CH-47F? Also, what are all the CDU screens in the CH-47F? Thanks everyone

[Brickle]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:37 AM, AlphaOneSix said:

I'm pretty sure it's the AFCS system select switch. It goes OFF - 1 - BOTH - 2 - OFF and is normally in BOTH which will have both AFCS systems operating at 50% authority (gain?) each. If you put it in 1 or 2 it will activate just that system only at 75% authority. OFF turns off both systems.

Correct. AFCS system select switch. Off-1-Both-2-Off. Pretty spot on with the 3/4 and 1/2 gain comment as well. 1 AFCS system will operate on 3/4 gain, meaning the Integrated Lower Control Arm Actuators, ILCA's, will only input 3/4 of their full authority under both systems. I can assure you that you do NOT want to fly the CH-47 with the AFCS off in a simulator. Flying the aircraft AFCS off is an entirely seat-of-your-pants experience. It cannot be replicated in a sim and cannot be accomplished while focused on instruments. You are outside, and you are one with the aircraft. The Chinook has zero aerodynamic properties, and with the AFCS off it's probably (based on what I've flown), one of the most difficult helicopters in the world to fly. Nothing makes sense. Takes a lot of practice, but it's something we train for just about every time we fly it, at least when I'm on the aircraft calling the shots.

 

On 3/7/2024 at 7:46 AM, Coeptus said:

Hey everyone. Does anyone have a diagram showing what the HOCAS (Hands on Collective and Stick) are and what functionality for the CH-47F? Also, what are all the CDU screens in the CH-47F? Thanks everyone

There's a lot of CDU menus. Too many to list. I've never heard it called a HOCAS, certainly not in the Chinook (because collective=thrust), but I'll break it down a bit:

 

On the Cyclic: Trigger= mic. First detent is ICS, or internal to the aircraft. Second detent is whatever radio you have selected. AFCS trim switch functions like the trim in any airplane you've flown in DCS. Guarded External Load Jettison Switch. Master Caution ACKNOWLEDGE button. Chaff/Flare. Flight Director Uncouple. Force Trim Release. Cursor ACK switch and select switch, allows you to select something on the MFD, change what's displayed etc. Flare Jettison button.

On the Thrust Lever: Searchlight (D/IR Mode Switch), on/off, bright/dim, slew. DAFCS (Decel, ALT-I/ALT-R, LVL, DESCENT, POSN) mode select switch. This 4 way switch is what makes the Chinook awesome. MARK button, (markpoint). Remote Radio Control selector. GO AROUND trigger, (pinky), automatically cues the flight director for a climb to FL200 at 90KCAS and captures current heading, or cues FD to what you've entered in the CDU. Used for missed approaches or IIMC recovery. Thrust Mag Brake Trigger, (index finger). HUD stuff, which doesn't work on the latest F model.

[Vortexstate]

13 minutes ago, Brickle said:

Correct. AFCS system select switch. Off-1-Both-2-Off. Pretty spot on with the 3/4 and 1/2 gain comment as well. 1 AFCS system will operate on 3/4 gain, meaning the Integrated Lower Control Arm Actuators, ILCA's, will only input 3/4 of their full authority under both systems. I can assure you that you do NOT want to fly the CH-47 with the AFCS off in a simulator. Flying the aircraft AFCS off is an entirely seat-of-your-pants experience. It cannot be replicated in a sim and cannot be accomplished while focused on instruments. You are outside, and you are one with the aircraft. The Chinook has zero aerodynamic properties, and with the AFCS off it's probably (based on what I've flown), one of the most difficult helicopters in the world to fly. Nothing makes sense. Takes a lot of practice, but it's something we train for just about every time we fly it, at least when I'm on the aircraft calling the shots.

 

There's a lot of CDU menus. Too many to list. I've never heard it called a HOCAS, certainly not in the Chinook (because collective=thrust), but I'll break it down a bit:

 

On the Cyclic: Trigger= mic. First detent is ICS, or internal to the aircraft. Second detent is whatever radio you have selected. AFCS trim switch functions like the trim in any airplane you've flown in DCS. Guarded External Load Jettison Switch. Master Caution ACKNOWLEDGE button. Chaff/Flare. Flight Director Uncouple. Force Trim Release. Cursor ACK switch and select switch, allows you to select something on the MFD, change what's displayed etc. Flare Jettison button.

On the Thrust Lever: Searchlight (D/IR Mode Switch), on/off, bright/dim, slew. DAFCS (Decel, ALT-I/ALT-R, LVL, DESCENT, POSN) mode select switch. This 4 way switch is what makes the Chinook awesome. MARK button, (markpoint). Remote Radio Control selector. GO AROUND trigger, (pinky), automatically cues the flight director for a climb to FL200 at 90KCAS and captures current heading, or cues FD to what you've entered in the CDU. Used for missed approaches or IIMC recovery. Thrust Mag Brake Trigger, (index finger). HUD stuff, which doesn't work on the latest F model.

This is an amazing response, thank you so much. I heard you asking if ED could use some SMEs, and you can try DMing BigNewy or Nineline on Discord asking for that position. Also, could you by chance elaborate on what the Thrust Mag Brake Trigger and DAFCS does? Thanks

[Brickle]

18 hours ago, Coeptus said:

This is an amazing response, thank you so much. I heard you asking if ED could use some SMEs, and you can try DMing BigNewy or Nineline on Discord asking for that position. Also, could you by chance elaborate on what the Thrust Mag Brake Trigger and DAFCS does? Thanks

No problem. I've reached out to ED regarding help with development. They have a team of SME's already, but we'll see. The Thrust Mag Brake Trigger just disengages the Thrust Mag Brake that holds the thrust lever in place. When you want to increase/decrease thrust, squeeze the trigger and pull the lever up or push it down. Release the trigger and the thrust lever will stay where you released it. The mag break has a clutch that can be slipped with somewhere between 7 and 23lbs of force in the event of a failure of the mag brake. DAFCS is a bit complex to explain here, but stands for Digital Automatic Flight Control System. Has a ton of features, but in summary you can use ALT modes to capture current Inertial Altitude or Radar Altitude, DECEL mode to slow the aircraft to a hover from 65K ground speed (switches to POS mode which captures and locks in a perfect hover), DESCENT mode with DECEL mode to initiate a descent/decel to a hover, etc. Tons of functionality.

[Vortexstate]

2 minutes ago, Brickle said:

No problem. I've reached out to ED regarding help with development. They have a team of SME's already, but we'll see. The Thrust Mag Brake Trigger just disengages the Thrust Mag Brake that holds the thrust lever in place. When you want to increase/decrease thrust, squeeze the trigger and pull the lever up or push it down. Release the trigger and the thrust lever will stay where you released it. The mag break has a clutch that can be slipped with somewhere between 7 and 23lbs of force in the event of a failure of the mag brake. DAFCS is a bit complex to explain here, but stands for Digital Automatic Flight Control System. Has a ton of features, but in summary you can use ALT modes to capture current Inertial Altitude or Radar Altitude, DECEL mode to slow the aircraft to a hover from 65K ground speed (switches to POS mode which captures and locks in a perfect hover), DESCENT mode with DECEL mode to initiate a descent/decel to a hover, etc. Tons of functionality.

So you have to hold down the Thrust Mag Brake in order to move the collective? Haven't heard of any other helicopter doing this, and I assume it's because the cyclic also is sort of a collective?

[Brickle]

5 hours ago, Coeptus said:

So you have to hold down the Thrust Mag Brake in order to move the collective? Haven't heard of any other helicopter doing this, and I assume it's because the cyclic also is sort of a collective?

It's called the Thrust Control Lever in the Chinook, not the collective. This is because the cyclic can also collectively change the pitch in the fore/aft blades. Yes, you have to hold the trigger to move the Thrust lever up or down.

[MAXsenna]

So you have to hold down the Thrust Mag Brake in order to move the collective? Haven't heard of any other helicopter doing this, and I assume it's because the cyclic also is sort of a collective?

Ka-50, Mi-8, Mi-24...

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Vortexstate]

29 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Ka-50, Mi-8, Mi-24...

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Didn't know they did that. Thanks for sharing

[MAXsenna]

Didn't know they did that. Thanks for sharing

You can enable it in the "Special" settings!
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[slowmover]

I want to ask how the development is going.Everything goes normal? Also with the chinook will we have new animations on troops?

[Talisman_VR]

On 3/16/2024 at 12:04 PM, slowmover said:

I want to ask how the development is going.Everything goes normal? Also with the chinook will we have new animations on troops?

Being able to see troops in the back and disembarking/embarking would be a fantastic addition for helicopter operations immersion across the board.  At the moment I feel a disconnect between me as a Huey pilot and the troops when carrying out troop transport and troop support duties.

Happy landings,

Talisman

[Dangerzone]

I'm hoping that the release of the CH-47 and C130 is going to bring us a lot more in DCS when it comes to troops, logistics and mission progression in general. In particular I would love to see:

• Animation of actual troop embarking and disembarking
• Revisit to sling loading and hopefully fixing issues with physics that cause slingshotting.
• Introduction of the COW (mobile FARP) for refueling/rearming/repairing of other units.
• Dynamic Spawn point creation on the map / the ability to create new client/player spawn slots in real time.

There is so much more potential for things other than combat that can be done in DCS. MOOSE, a variety of different script writers, server owners and mission designers have managed to graft in some of these abilities with some hacking - but for it to be fully functional and native to DCS would just be a dream. The ability to bring in non-combat players who fly 'the other civilian flight simulator' into an environment where they can contribute to a progressive multiplayer campaign without having to worry about combat operations -  but where their flight has real impact on other people and not just flying virtual cargo on a MP server has the potential to reach out to a lot more people than combat alone does. 

[Vortexstate]

1 hour ago, Dangerzone said:

I'm hoping that the release of the CH-47 and C130 is going to bring us a lot more in DCS when it comes to troops, logistics and mission progression in general. In particular I would love to see:

• Animation of actual troop embarking and disembarking
• Revisit to sling loading and hopefully fixing issues with physics that cause slingshotting.
• Introduction of the COW (mobile FARP) for refueling/rearming/repairing of other units.
• Dynamic Spawn point creation on the map / the ability to create new client/player spawn slots in real time.

There is so much more potential for things other than combat that can be done in DCS. MOOSE, a variety of different script writers, server owners and mission designers have managed to graft in some of these abilities with some hacking - but for it to be fully functional and native to DCS would just be a dream. The ability to bring in non-combat players who fly 'the other civilian flight simulator' into an environment where they can contribute to a progressive multiplayer campaign without having to worry about combat operations -  but where their flight has real impact on other people and not just flying virtual cargo on a MP server has the potential to reach out to a lot more people than combat alone does. 

These are pretty good suggestions, I'd run them by the ED Discord just to see if ED is going to do any of these. I bet there'll be major changes in logistics and troop transport, I'd see it as a requirement. 

[slowmover]

5 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

These are pretty good suggestions, I'd run them by the ED Discord just to see if ED is going to do any of these. I bet there'll be major changes in logistics and troop transport, I'd see it as a requirement. 

Let us know if you have many news about this 

[Talisman_VR]

11 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I'm hoping that the release of the CH-47 and C130 is going to bring us a lot more in DCS when it comes to troops, logistics and mission progression in general. In particular I would love to see:

• Animation of actual troop embarking and disembarking
• Revisit to sling loading and hopefully fixing issues with physics that cause slingshotting.
• Introduction of the COW (mobile FARP) for refueling/rearming/repairing of other units.
• Dynamic Spawn point creation on the map / the ability to create new client/player spawn slots in real time.

There is so much more potential for things other than combat that can be done in DCS. MOOSE, a variety of different script writers, server owners and mission designers have managed to graft in some of these abilities with some hacking - but for it to be fully functional and native to DCS would just be a dream. The ability to bring in non-combat players who fly 'the other civilian flight simulator' into an environment where they can contribute to a progressive multiplayer campaign without having to worry about combat operations -  but where their flight has real impact on other people and not just flying virtual cargo on a MP server has the potential to reach out to a lot more people than combat alone does. 

Very much agree.  I think that there is a lot of untapped potential for helicopter ops that DCS has yet to exploited.  I think that DCS could reach a wider customer base if it was to expand more into this area.  

Happy landings,

Talisman

[Silver_Dragon]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

• Animation of actual troop embarking and disembarking

From 2024 newsletter:
Infantry Unit Improvements. We will be working on new infantry models and animations in 2024 along with more life-like behaviors.

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

• Revisit to sling loading and hopefully fixing issues with physics that cause slingshotting.

CH-47F coming with sling loading, by now, we dont know your features and fixes.

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

• Introduction of the COW (mobile FARP) for refueling/rearming/repairing of other units.

No planed yet, but surely will coming more in the future.

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

• Dynamic Spawn point creation on the map / the ability to create new client/player spawn slots in real time.

Dynamic Spawn point creation has on develop by ED, first on bases.

 

[slowmover]

There was some minutes with the CH-47F on the Afghanistan map. Let's hope we get some news about it tomorrow!!!

[Cowboy10uk]

Ok pre ordered within 5 secs of video starting.   However guys.  YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO MY WIFE WHY IM NOW FLYING IN DCS ON THE DAY OF MY SILVER WEDDING ANNIVERSARY

 

 

of all the days to choose.

 

honestly cannot wait for this release.

[Razor5-1]

I watched it and was enjoying it, so happy. Then the video ended, it said preorder now and I jumped forward on my chair, clicked the link and bought it  

[Viper ZA]

All I want to know is. When is it releasing, and what game loop will it have at launch that's better than the other helicopter or works better than the others.

[Silver_Dragon]

Release with the first branch of Afganistan... and some interesting pics on the pre-order video. The video show the new infantry animations... and some goodies.

 

Edited April 19 by Silver_Dragon