How in the world did I miss DCS??

[TopCat SE]

The other day I randomly came across a DCS video on YouTube.  My initial reaction was HOLY SH*T!  Back in the day (late 90s early 00s) I played a game from NovaLogic called F16/MIG29 where we battled it out against 32-64 other pilots in Integrated Battle Space (IBS).  For its time IBS was quite the chit.  In my 45+ years of playing games (yes, I'm old...like early 60s) that game was the most fun I'd ever had before or since.  Watching what I have of DSC I've gotten more excited about a game than I have in 20+ years.

So of course, I have some questions...thanks to any and all that reply.  Your time is very appreciated.

 

Planes

The high-fidelity nature of most planes means it will take WAY longer to learn how to fly and fight properly.  I get that and I am down.  However, the plane, or I guess "module" in DCS, I am most interested in is the F-14.  I get you can have an AI RIO, but in my experience game AI is dumber than well, crap.  Is that the case in DCS?  Even if it is smart, I understand you communicate some sort of wheeled menu which I would think would be a pain the heat of battle, right?   Ideally, you'd have two humans in the plane rather than an AI backseater.  Which brings me to my next question...

Squadrons

Ultimately, I will want to join a squadron.  I'm wondering, are there squads that have F14 air wings that are willing to help train new pilots in both pilot and RIO roles?  Eventually I'd want to learn both but given how complex this game is I'd like to bit off smaller chunks.  If you can think of any, please let me know and I'll track them down.

General

Do squads ever have organized events where a map is created and they duke it out?  Back in IBS we had "wars" with other squads and even had seasonal leagues.  I assume DCS has something similar, but I haven't seen anything about that yet.  I could have very well missed it however.

I think I've rambled along enough at this point.  I've got more questions but to keep this short(ish) I'll let it at this.  Again, thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.

TC (from the former 916th SnakeEyes)

[Exorcet]

53 minutes ago, TopCat SE said:

Planes

 

The high-fidelity nature of most planes means it will take WAY longer to learn how to fly and fight properly.  I get that and I am down.  However, the plane, or I guess "module" in DCS, I am most interested in is the F-14.  I get you can have an AI RIO, but in my experience game AI is dumber than well, crap.  Is that the case in DCS?  Even if it is smart, I understand you communicate some sort of wheeled menu which I would think would be a pain the heat of battle, right?   Ideally, you'd have two humans in the plane rather than an AI backseater.  Which brings me to my next question...

Jester is the F-14 AI. However if you're going to play online he can be replaced by a player.

Jester is not an expert RIO. He can do the basics, but don't rely on him to solve complex problems. Heatblur (the F-14 developers) have put a lot of work into Jester and continue to make improvements, but a human RIO is better. If you do fly with Jester you will want to make sure to learn his limitations and bind some of the commands you can give to him to your controls so you can help him when he needs assistance.

53 minutes ago, TopCat SE said:

Squadrons

Ultimately, I will want to join a squadron.  I'm wondering, are there squads that have F14 air wings that are willing to help train new pilots in both pilot and RIO roles?  Eventually I'd want to learn both but given how complex this game is I'd like to bit off smaller chunks.  If you can think of any, please let me know and I'll track them down.

DCS has squadrons. I don't fly online very much, but this section of the forum has squad recruitment posts.

53 minutes ago, TopCat SE said:

General

Do squads ever have organized events where a map is created and they duke it out?  Back in IBS we had "wars" with other squads and even had seasonal leagues.  I assume DCS has something similar, but I haven't seen anything about that yet.  I could have very well missed it however.

I think I've rambled along enough at this point.  I've got more questions but to keep this short(ish) I'll let it at this.  Again, thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.

TC (from the former 916th SnakeEyes)

DCS does have some online events, but as someone who plays mostly offline, I wouldn't be able to give the most detail.

[MadKreator]

    @TopCat SE   There are many squadrons to choose from, as well as open groups you could join on Discord. Lots of people willing to help out with training in these groups. Look up Tactical DCS. ( there are many other great groups as well)  They do open training/ missions, liberation dynamic campaign missions every week in bot North america and UK time zones. You can join the training classes or just sit in and listen. There are many groups that host events but I haven’t seen much in the way of league type play, but I also don’t look for that. Multiplayer has a few servers that are basically jus PVP dogfighting if thats your thing. When you download DCS make sure you use the Beta version if you want the largest access to multiplayer.

DCS is very complex and challenging. It’s definitely not a hop and go shoot sh*t kind of thing.. Your first full fidelity module could take months of practice to become proficient ( or efficient) in, and even then you may have not become familiar with every system and way to apply the things you’ve learned. It gets frustrating at times, but the patience and persistence pays off. One step at a time, even if people want to get right to the action, Its next to impossible without learning multiple aircraft systems and controls in decent depth.

When I first started I stuck it in game mode and wanted to just hit next target and shoot things, like many older sims.. Got kind of bored with it after a little bit, then probably two years later decided to really give it a go. Bought the f-18 ( even though I owned the a-10) and really started learning it.. I never looked back! Now I regularly swap between the f-18, f-16, av8b harrier and a-10c2 with a little dabble in the f-5e, p-51 and Huey. Now if I hop on a more arcade style sim, its just not fun for me. Even say, for example hopping in the f-18 in msfs2020, where some of my friends think its the coolest ever( non dcs people) it absolutely pales in comparison to the model in DCS. 

If you dont use Discord, download it. A LOT of interactions with squadrons, server owners ( Hoggit,Through the inferno, 4ya, Lima-Kilo Tactical DCS etc) and other  dcs related things are through discord. There are many many people out there willing to help new-comers in their journey.

Watch lots of YouTube videos too. And if you want some good ol’ learn by the book kind of training, look up “Chuck’s Guides” He ( and probably a team) writes very,  very in depth manuals on every aspect of most all aircraft in dcs, like 500+ pages with pictures, diagrams, controls, functions etc. on every system in the aircraft, even some history of the planes and technical diagrams of the real things. 

Welcome to DCS! 

Edited January 6, 2023 by MadKreator

[RatMan]

You got in at a really interesting time. The learning curve is steep, but that's what makes it interesting. Enjoy the ride!

[Ramstein]

some of us have been flying for decades, and everyday we learn on the curve

[zildac]

The other day I randomly came across a DCS video on YouTube.  My initial reaction was HOLY SH*T!  Back in the day (late 90s early 00s) I played a game from NovaLogic called F16/MIG29 where we battled it out against 32-64 other pilots in Integrated Battle Space (IBS).  For its time IBS was quite the chit.  In my 45+ years of playing games (yes, I'm old...like early 60s) that game was the most fun I'd ever had before or since.  Watching what I have of DSC I've gotten more excited about a game than I have in 20+ years.
So of course, I have some questions...thanks to any and all that reply.  Your time is very appreciated.
 
Planes
The high-fidelity nature of most planes means it will take WAY longer to learn how to fly and fight properly.  I get that and I am down.  However, the plane, or I guess "module" in DCS, I am most interested in is the F-14.  I get you can have an AI RIO, but in my experience game AI is dumber than well, crap.  Is that the case in DCS?  Even if it is smart, I understand you communicate some sort of wheeled menu which I would think would be a pain the heat of battle, right?   Ideally, you'd have two humans in the plane rather than an AI backseater.  Which brings me to my next question...
Squadrons
Ultimately, I will want to join a squadron.  I'm wondering, are there squads that have F14 air wings that are willing to help train new pilots in both pilot and RIO roles?  Eventually I'd want to learn both but given how complex this game is I'd like to bit off smaller chunks.  If you can think of any, please let me know and I'll track them down.
General
Do squads ever have organized events where a map is created and they duke it out?  Back in IBS we had "wars" with other squads and even had seasonal leagues.  I assume DCS has something similar, but I haven't seen anything about that yet.  I could have very well missed it however.
I think I've rambled along enough at this point.  I've got more questions but to keep this short(ish) I'll let it at this.  Again, thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.
TC (from the former 916th SnakeEyes)

Welcome to our cult. Prepare for blood, sweat , tears and joy

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, zildac said:

Welcome to our cult. Prepare for blood, sweat , tears and joy

 

...and a seriously lightened wallet.  

[MAXsenna]

Tips for Jester.
If you get VoiceAttack, there's a plugin for DCS (that's now free) called VAICOM that let's you speak your Jester commands. You can also use it to speak to ATC.

Cheers and welcome!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Beirut]

13 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Tips for Jester.
If you get VoiceAttack, there's a plugin for DCS (that's now free) called VAICOM that let's you speak your Jester commands. You can also use it to speak to ATC.

Cheers and welcome!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

I have yet to figure out VAICOM, I'm a bit weak minded you see, but I could not exist in DCS for 10 minutes without Voice Attack. it's a godsend. 

[MAXsenna]

 
I have yet to figure out VAICOM, I'm a bit weak minded you see, but I could not exist in DCS for 10 minutes without Voice Attack. it's a godsend. 

You want help with it?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Beirut]

28 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

You want help with it?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

I always appreciate your patience, but I'm just going to have to watch one/several of those installation videos. Several times.

 

Maybe tomorrow before listening to DeepHack's live DCS podcast. Always a good show.

[MAXsenna]

 
I always appreciate your patience, but I'm just going to have to watch one/several of those installation videos. Several times.
 
Maybe tomorrow before listening to DeepHack's live DCS podcast. Always a good show.

What video? Of VAICOM?
It's a simple file copy.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Beirut]

7 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

What video? Of VAICOM?
It's a simple file copy.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

Simple for you.  But there was something in the whole process, either install or setup, that made my brain hurt. I'm going to try again today. But not at 2PM EST when Deephacks podcast comes on. hint-hint... 

 

I have jester working with VA in a very simple but effective way. "Jester" to call him up, and then a series of numbers to go through the command wheel. So it might look like "Jester... 2...4...2..." And then I get a "Rodger" or more likely him complaining that I'm wrong. I'm not a big F-14 flyer, but the VAICOM thing carries over to other planes I'm sure.

[MAXsenna]

 
Simple for you.  But there was something in the whole process, either install or setup, that made my brain hurt. I'm going to try again today. But not at 2PM EST when Deephacks podcast comes on. hint-hint... 
 
I have jester working with VA in a very simple but effective way. "Jester" to call him up, and then a series of numbers to go through the command wheel. So it might look like "Jester... 2...4...2..." And then I get a "Rodger" or more likely him complaining that I'm wrong. I'm not a big F-14 flyer, but the VAICOM thing carries over to other planes I'm sure.

Yeah, ATC is for every plane.
You have Steam VoiceAttack? The installer didn't work for that version before, now it does.
Link to latest installer is the top pinned post in the VAICOM forums.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[TopCat SE]

Thanks to everyone who replied.  Very much appreciated!

[Dangerzone]

On 1/7/2023 at 6:52 AM, TopCat SE said:

How in the world did I miss DCS?? The other day I randomly came across a DCS video on YouTube....

Yes - I thought the same thing about 3 years ago. Except that it never came up on you-tube for me. I was introduced to it by another gamer who somehow stumbled across it in his 'arcade flight simulator' community. So, I came across it almost as a fluke and since - have never spent even close previously either dedicated hardware, or software than I have since I was introduced to DCS world. It was that much of a gold mine find. (Mind you that's my decision. VR wasn't even on the horizon until DCS, let alone good peripherals, etc).  

I'm not sure why DCS isn't more well known. I'm hoping that the you-tube video's out there are going to reach more and more people in the flying community because I'm sure there are a tonne of customers just waiting to be enlightened to the existence of DCS.

Re your questions, there are a lot of DCS multiplayer communities out there, and a number have human pilots with human RIO's. The best approach though will be to fly in some of these and get to know the people via discord first. (I'm not sure how many RIO's are keen to jump in with a random they don't know. So using Jester as support for that 'gap' is a good idea even if Jester isn't ideal. - Also for more complex calculations I think you can jump between the front and rear seat mid flight). 

Honestly though - when I started flying DCS (my first airframe being the FA-18) - I found I spent the first few months just enjoying the carrier before even considering weapons. Launching, and then trapping back on the carrier (or more-so bolter bolter bolter, until I started learning to trap right). Then moving onto some night traps, and the challenge of air-air refueling, etc. Then I started learning the basics of weapon systems. Just the flying options alone was fully immersive for me. I dare say that you may have the same experience with the F14. Either way - don't be too quick to rush into the weapons - the flying alone has a lot to offer.

But on the fighting - FWIW - even though Jester get's a lot of slack I have been taken down quite a few times by a number of pilots flying solo in the F14 using Jester, so don't think that Jester is useless. He just needs patience to learn how to use him, and to learn his strengths and weaknesses. I would expect that you can be very effective in both SP and MP using just him if you take the time to invest learning and know what tactics to use. 

[Lurker]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:21 PM, TopCat SE said:

Thanks to everyone who replied.  Very much appreciated!

The F14 is probably the best module in DCS bar none. You have chosen well. Don't be put off by Jester, I have flown this plane a lot with Jester in the back seat, and once you get used to it the contextual wheel is very intuitive and easy to use and for most Air to Air tasks you will be more than capable in the F14 as long as you are aware of Jesters limitations. It's definitively the best implementation of an AI co-pilot in the game. One of the very cool things as a very new virtual pilot is learning start-ups. Jester will help you out with that too. 

Eagle Dynamics should have bought, bribed or stolen the code for Jester from Heatblur, because frankly what they have in the AH64D and the Hind is complete garbage by comparison. There I've said it. Many will not agree but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. 

P.S.

You absolutely need a decent pair of rudder pedals, and a joystick to fly the F14. It's a very hands-on and feet-on plane. Don't even try rolling at more than 15 AoA with just the stick. 

Oh and TrackIR is highly recommended. I would say essential but some manage to fly without it. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Lurker

[Dustband]

If you are unsure of which module to buy, and if the F-14 is worth it, you can trial each module for two weeks through the free trial program before deciding on making a purchase. That way, you can find out about the F-14 AI yourself

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/personal/licensing/trial/

[AngryViper.101]

Aha, this is exactly how I felt when discovering DCS World toward the end of 2021....

also, remember days back when Microprose F19 and F117a was released for PC back in 1992 ... yup long time ago.

Also, Red Baron 1990+ .. Those two were epic.

 

Red Baron (1990 video game) - Wikipedia

F-19 Stealth Fighter - Wikipedia

[Thinder]

DCS... Right.

For sure the most challenging flight sim there must be in the market, for those who remember Jane's Fighters Anthology, IAF, USAF or even F/A 18, it's a quantum leap from those games but complexity comes at a price and mastering the most advanced modules takes a lot of time and dedication.

Also the gear needed to make the most of them is incomparable to a Pentium II3 with 256mb of RAM and an early Radeon GPU, when you think that the size of a terrain pixel in IAF (one of my favourite for the missions) was probably the same as that of a car in DCS you can imagine what you need to render the whole thing.

We better agree to disagree as to which is the best module in the game, question of taste methink, I hate my Mig-29 because it feels and sounds like it's been made in a cold war era factory in East Germany by drunk workers, but I wouldn't swap my Mirage 2000C for any of them.

F-14? Yessir! It's certainly a good one, for the elite perhaps but I'm restarting and struggling to get the hang of the nimble Mirage F1, I'm not gonna try to control-crash this huge thing on a carrier, but as a module it certainly stands out with the other good ones.

Another, simpler alternative is the actual F-15C, if you just want to have fun and get some flight hours in a fast jet, it's probably the best.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Thinder

[QuiGon]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:52 PM, TopCat SE said:

The other day I randomly came across a DCS video on YouTube.  My initial reaction was HOLY SH*T!  Back in the day (late 90s early 00s) I played a game from NovaLogic called F16/MIG29 where we battled it out against 32-64 other pilots in Integrated Battle Space (IBS).  For its time IBS was quite the chit.  In my 45+ years of playing games (yes, I'm old...like early 60s) that game was the most fun I'd ever had before or since.  Watching what I have of DSC I've gotten more excited about a game than I have in 20+ years.

So of course, I have some questions...thanks to any and all that reply.  Your time is very appreciated.

Great to see that you found DCS eventually (or did it find you ). Welcome aboard!
(And don't worry about your age. DCS has quite some seasoned players and a relatively high average age among its community)
 

On 1/6/2023 at 8:52 PM, TopCat SE said:

Planes

The high-fidelity nature of most planes means it will take WAY longer to learn how to fly and fight properly.  I get that and I am down.  However, the plane, or I guess "module" in DCS, I am most interested in is the F-14.  I get you can have an AI RIO, but in my experience game AI is dumber than well, crap.  Is that the case in DCS?  Even if it is smart, I understand you communicate some sort of wheeled menu which I would think would be a pain the heat of battle, right?   Ideally, you'd have two humans in the plane rather than an AI backseater.  Which brings me to my next question...

For an AI Jester is quite well made and is able to basically do his job, but in the end it is indeed just an AI, that requires you to guide and command him on what he should do. A human RIO is of course superior to that as a human RIO can think on his own and can work on his own. If human RIO and human pilot are well acquainted and know each other well, so that one knows what the other is thinking before he says it, then you've got a very effective Tomcat crew and a great time!
 

On 1/6/2023 at 8:52 PM, TopCat SE said:

Squadrons

Ultimately, I will want to join a squadron.  I'm wondering, are there squads that have F14 air wings that are willing to help train new pilots in both pilot and RIO roles?  Eventually I'd want to learn both but given how complex this game is I'd like to bit off smaller chunks.  If you can think of any, please let me know and I'll track them down.

While I do fly online a lot, I'm personally not into squadrons, so I can't tell you much in this regard other than the fact that they exist in DCS as well.
 

On 1/6/2023 at 8:52 PM, TopCat SE said:

General

Do squads ever have organized events where a map is created and they duke it out?  Back in IBS we had "wars" with other squads and even had seasonal leagues.  I assume DCS has something similar, but I haven't seen anything about that yet.  I could have very well missed it however.

I think I've rambled along enough at this point.  I've got more questions but to keep this short(ish) I'll let it at this.  Again, thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.

TC (from the former 916th SnakeEyes)

Squadrons do have organized events, yes. But let me tell you, that you can also have a lot of fun in the public multiplayer of DCS. There are very different public servers (free flight, training, aerobatics, dogfight, airquake, campaign) out there that you can just hop onto and start flying. My personal favorite is Buddyspike Blueflag, a dynamic campaign server, which might not be the best thing to start with as it is quite complex, but as they have a nice webpage it gives you an impression what is possible with DCS: http://gadget.buddyspike.net/

See you in the skies!

Edited January 12, 2023 by QuiGon